From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 30 18:12:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08888 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:12:22 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA23781 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:05:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:05:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199909302305.SAA23781@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1347 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1347 In this digest: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine IN> Re: the Vatican Hotline Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD IN> Re: Choir/Band symbols IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors IN> WoD/IN crossovers Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance Re: Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors Fwd: Re: IN> Stopping Spammers IN> IN Crossovers/conversions - the dark side. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:19:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine David Edelstein wrote: > There is one other system that I think would have real potential in > In Nomine, and would particularly appeal to people who don't like > heavy mechanics or dice, and that's Theatrix. I was tempted to write > up a Theatrix/In Nomine conversion once, but I'll be amazed if more > than 2 other people on this list have even heard of it, much less > own the rules. I've heard of it, but I don't know or own the rules. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:41:57 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Trey Reilly wrote: > Oh heck, yeah! Can you imagine the religous wars (intellectual or > militarily-based) if it got out? Can you imagine the Pope trying > to convince his Flock that the Great Enemy is no more? (1) I have a *really* hard time believing any of this would make public circulation on Earth. I mean, the IN Earth is completely oblivious about the demise of Raphael, the recall of Uriel, the madness and alienation of Gabriel, and the trial of Michael, not to mention the very existence of important Archangels like Dominic. (2) It's by no means the case that the Great Enemy is no more, if you take the Great Enemy to be Hell. Hell would be in great disarray, of course, but it would still be there. BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > Most of your hard-line Christians wouldn't even consider the > possibility of Luce becoming a good guy. That would make them have > to (gasp) THINK or even reevaluate their belief system! Smile when you say that. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:22:50 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) >(1) I have a *really* hard time believing any of this would >make public circulation on Earth. I mean, the IN Earth is >completely oblivious about the demise of Raphael, the recall >of Uriel, the madness and alienation of Gabriel, and the >trial of Michael, not to mention the very existence of >important Archangels like Dominic. IMC, I assume that the Pope is kinda up on Celestial politics. He *is* the Pope, after all. Can't be the earthly representitive to God without some sort of communication to Above. And there's no greater gossip center than the higher ranks of the Church. So while the regular population of the earth might not ever find out, the internal speculation within the Church would be a cause of some serious strife. - --Trey Cherub of Gaming Conventions ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:23:29 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors hmm...that Pyramid s u b keeps paying off . when the GMG gets released, if it stays close to the playtest, it will have an impressive timeline and some suggestions on running In Nomine in alternate settings. as for Superiors, you forgot Makatiel the Demon Prince of Disease, and Genubath was the Demon Prince or Rapine. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:29:45 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine At 9:19 AM 9/30/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >David Edelstein wrote: > > I'll be amazed if more >> than 2 other people on this list have even heard of it, much less >> own the rules. Heard of it. Own the rules. Own the (as far as I know) only supplement publsihed for it. Like it lots. But...I'm curious as to why you say that Theatrix is especially suited for IN. Any particular reasons? yours, Jason...who got the system after the r.g.f.a. debates in the early '90s. - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:28:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Trey Reilly wrote: > IMC, I assume that the Pope is kinda up on Celestial politics. > He *is* the Pope, after all. Can't be the earthly representitive > to God without some sort of communication to Above. And there's no > greater gossip center than the higher ranks of the Church. Cute. Are there hotlines in the Vatican to the Patriarch of Constantinople, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Dalai Lama, the World Council of Churches, the Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, and/or the Hidden Imam? Or is this a Catholic-flavored game? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:36:08 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 21:51 -0400 9/29/99, Liam Astley wrote: >the game would be set a few decades before the rise of charlemagne, and a >few years before uriel's crusade. the roster of archangels would be quite >different; uriel instead of laurence, raphael still alive, eli and gabriel >still active in heaven. as for hell, nybbas wouldn't exist and vapula would >be a bit of a nobody. valefor wouldn't be around yet (there'd be >whatever-his-hame-is, the rapine guy). it may be fudging the timeline a bit, >but i'd probably say that haagenti hadn't risen to power yet, so the DPs of >sloth and oblivion were still around. anyone else i missed? If you can wait for it to come out, the GMG has a canon timeline in it that should help with these questions. Don't forget that Jean's attunements probably need to be changed as well, though to some extent you may be able to change the trappings and keep the general behavior of the attunements. >anyway, if i do run this game i'll need attunements, distinctions, rites etc >etc for these all-new all-old superiors, and being a lazy guy i was hoping >some people might have writtem them up already on some website somewhere. i >know i've come across a couple of uriel, but have any of the others been >attempted? I don't think I've seen any versions of the DPs of Rapine or Oblivion; I vaguely recall seeing a version of Sloth posted to the list here, long ago. I think there may have been a couple versions of Raphael also, but I recall them as being rather non-canon-oriented in nature. Elizabeth's been working a bit on canon possibilities for the historical Raphael, I believe, but there's nothing definitive yet. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:41:35 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine At 22:05 -0400 9/29/99, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > I think Hero/Fuzion would work better than GURPS, but that's not saying >much. Both systems attempt to model effects very precisely, and IN has a lot >of effects that are vague and difficult to 'price' effectively. The vagueness wasn't much of a problem, but finding game mechanics with "reasonable" costs was a major issue in writing GURPS IN -- one reason it's so late is that it took me roughly 3 months to work through all the Superior attunements and distinctions. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:58:18 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: IN> Re: the Vatican Hotline > > IMC, I assume that the Pope is kinda up on Celestial politics. > > He *is* the Pope, after all. Can't be the earthly representitive > > to God without some sort of communication to Above. And there's no > > greater gossip center than the higher ranks of the Church. >Cute. Are there hotlines in the Vatican to the Patriarch of >Constantinople, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Dalai Lama, >the World Council of Churches, the Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, and/or >the >Hidden Imam? Or is this a Catholic-flavored game? The leaders of the various world religions have their own communications to Above. They're certainly not gonna ask the Pope every time they need an Heavenly answer, after all. But he's got them on speed dial, yes. :-) The campaign I run is highly Catholic flavored due to natural inclination (I'd hate to mess with someone else's belief system and mess it up--I'll mess with my own instead) and player character choice. So I take the pan-religous ripples into account, but since they don't affect my player's lives directly, I don't concentrate on it overmuch. - --Trey Cherub of Gaming Conventions ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:02:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Wraith: Haven't figured it out yet. Any ideas? The afterlife of Wraith could be embedded in In Nomine as a place in the Ethereal Plane where "dream shades" (I think they were called) tend to go. These are the souls of humans who died while asleep and were able to resist the call of the Celestial Plane. In canonical IN, they're very rare. You might want to make it easier to become a dream shade, to supply sufficient population to the Wraith world. You'd also want to make it easier to stay a dream shade, since they're constantly being drawn off the Ethereal Plane, to the Celestial. Wraith's Transcendence is clearly either Heaven in particular or the Celestial Plane (Heaven or Hell) in general. Oblivion is either Hell or disbandment of your Forces. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> Re: Choir/Band symbols Walter wrote: >There are symbols for the Bands, in the IPG. I don't know if they appear >on any web pages, though, and I also haven't heard of jewelry being done >for them yet, as was done with the Choir symbols. Actually, band jewelry, with the exception of the Habbalah, is coming out this fall, according to Georgia Panaritis, who makes them. Not that anybody will EVER update the jewelry picture on the In Nomine page -- the Mercurian pin's been available for a year and it still isn't in the group shot. Discrimination! (Fortunately, there is a nice picture of it on the jewelry page.) djd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:10:35 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance I can see the reasoning behind the dissonance condition for servitors of Lust, but I just don't see how you can monitor this in a PC. any suggestions from experience? the only real answer I can come up with is just being able to catch the PC's reaction and making a judgement call on it. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:42:09 +0100 From: Mark Baker Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors Liam Astley writes >i've got vague plans of running an IN game set in the dark ages. i like the >idea but don't know when i'd actually do it, especially seeing as my regular >game's been on hold for months. > - -- Mark Baker (L'Ange de l'Abime) aka. Simeon, Mercurian of Novalis aka. Rebekkah, Menunite of Blandine "Some of my best friends are demons. You know where you stand with them." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:42:09 +0100 From: Mark Baker Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors Liam Astley writes >i've got vague plans of running an IN game set in the dark ages. i like the >idea but don't know when i'd actually do it, especially seeing as my regular >game's been on hold for months. > - -- Mark Baker (L'Ange de l'Abime) aka. Simeon, Mercurian of Novalis aka. Rebekkah, Menunite of Blandine "Some of my best friends are demons. You know where you stand with them." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:18:04 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance At 12:10 -0400 9/30/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >I can see the reasoning behind the dissonance condition for servitors of >Lust, but I just don't see how you can monitor this in a PC. any >suggestions from experience? the only real answer I can come up with is >just being able to catch the PC's reaction and making a judgement call on >it. To some extent it's behavioral, and can be caught there. It is difficult, of course, for the GM to tell if the PC *cares* about anyone (unless the player confirms it), but the *appearance* of caring is easier to detect, and also dissonant, if I recall right. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:14:38 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Mark Baker > Liam Astley writes >>i've got vague plans of running an IN game set in the dark ages. i like the >>idea but don't know when i'd actually do it, especially seeing as my regular >>game's been on hold for months. >> > > -- > Mark Baker (L'Ange de l'Abime) i'd get a lot more games run if it wasn't for these pesky players... liam Demon of Only Being Able To Run Games At Weekends ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:17:58 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Walter Milliken > > Don't forget that Jean's attunements probably need to be changed as well, > though to some extent you may be able to change the trappings and keep > the general behavior of the attunements. > i had some vague ideas about jeanites running around with clockwork-powered gizmos... > > I don't think I've seen any versions of the DPs of Rapine or Oblivion; I > vaguely recall seeing a version of Sloth posted to the list here, long ago. > I think there may have been a couple versions of Raphael also, but I > recall them as being rather non-canon-oriented in nature. Elizabeth's > been working a bit on canon possibilities for the historical Raphael, I > believe, but there's nothing definitive yet. > curses. liam Archangel of Style ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:51:54 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD > Wraith: Haven't figured it out yet. Any ideas? I've actually been working on a wraith/in-nomine convertion. Basicly humans who refuse to move on (and have sufficient will to make that refusal valid) have created a new ethereal realm (presumably from their dream scapes) which is the Tempest in Wraith. The nightmare elements (mostly focusing on finally dying) gave rise to Oblivion, the Malpheans and what not. It is a distinct sub-symphony, racked with constant disturbance which sometimes gets very bad (Maelstroms) which can even strike the corporeal realm. Wraiths automaticly have vessels composed of plasm, and are thus part of corporeal reality but seperated from it. Some ethereal beings who have habitualated to the Tempest and its unique sound can manage to manifest such vessels, other wise they are limited to the Tempest. Wraiths have some sever problems, like the fact they occupy a section of the Symphony so twisted that essence doesn't flow naturally, they must fufill passion to draw essence (in otherwords strong emotion is the only thing that opens the proper channels for essence to flow). In addition the discrepancies between their sub-symphony and the Symphony give rise to a constant disturbance that is the Shroud (basicly its where the Symphony is reasserting itself, when the two are close in concept its not such a loud noise). Since its a constant sound new celestials to earth will ask what that buzz is and older celestials saw don't worry you'll get used to it. Celestials are somewhat aware of wraiths, but don't bother with them much (its a pain to deal with them). Arcanos are grouped song effects and attunements (for powers that have no songe equivellent) because their sounds play closely together in the Wraithly symphony. The Shadow functions much as it does in WoD, including gradual increase of Angst with a 1 to 10 rating (which conviently is the Will scale for humans in In-nomine). Specters work much the same, being tuned more towards the ethereal portion of ghostly existance. Haven't gotten around to Risen yet, but I'd like to. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:41:22 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 13:17 -0400 9/30/99, Liam Astley wrote: >From: Walter Milliken >> Don't forget that Jean's attunements probably need to be changed as well, >> though to some extent you may be able to change the trappings and keep >> the general behavior of the attunements. > >i had some vague ideas about jeanites running around with clockwork-powered >gizmos... Or steam... IN Steampunk? Another thought I've had is that these attunements had more of a magical flavor to them in past times, which were more accepting of miracles and magic than modern times. I.e., Jean's attunements have manifestations that match humankind's current understanding of the physical universe. So Roger Bacon's brass head (I think it is) might have been the prior manifestation of the Elohite of Lightning attunement. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:00:33 -0500 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors >i had some vague ideas about jeanites running around with clockwork-powered >gizmos... I believe that clockwork is more recent than the time frame you were talking about as well, being mostly a Renaissance invention. Lightning may have it ahead of time, but Servitors will need to be careful with it. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:49:00 -0700 From: darkelf Subject: IN> WoD/IN crossovers Whoever asked -- I found a conversion EDG did a few months ago for IN into WoD. If you want it, email me privately and I'll send it on. Kat - -- "We have vanquished evil with the sword of justice and the hammer of ... not-bickering!" - -- The Shoveler, _Mystery Men_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:50:03 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors >Another thought I've had is that these attunements had more of a >magical >flavor to them in past times, which were more accepting of >miracles and >magic than modern times. I.e., Jean's attunements have >manifestations >that match humankind's current understanding of the >physical universe. >So Roger Bacon's brass head (I think it is) might have been the prior >manifestation of the Elohite of Lightning attunement. I'm reading Umberto Eco's _Foucalt's Pendulum_ right now, and in the early pages its set inside the Conservatoire des Arts et Metiers in Paris. He's got some descriptions of things like this: magi-science apparati from the Age of Reason and stuff from the beginnings of Modern Chemistry. Brass and Glass and Alembics: sounds right up Jean's alley. - --Trey Cherub of Gaming Conventions ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:45:13 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance At 1:18 PM -0400 9/30/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 12:10 -0400 9/30/99, Amo Nympham wrote: > >I can see the reasoning behind the dissonance condition for servitors of > >Lust, but I just don't see how you can monitor this in a PC. any > >suggestions from experience? the only real answer I can come up with is > >just being able to catch the PC's reaction and making a judgement call on > >it. > >To some extent it's behavioral, and can be caught there. It is difficult, >of course, for the GM to tell if the PC *cares* about anyone (unless the >player confirms it), but the *appearance* of caring is easier to detect, >and also dissonant, if I recall right. Actually, they're explicitly allowed to appear like they care, as I recall. CF the Djinn and the "cuddlespace" attunement. In part because when they trash the 'relationship' the fall will cheapen and degrade the partner further. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:50:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] At 8:15 PM -0500 9/29/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 10:36 AM -0500 9/29/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >>the Resources section >>of the In Nomine page, it has a link to some character sheets by choir/band. >>each sheet has the sigil for the choir/band/whatever. > > Those would be mine, yes. Mind you, I -do- own the IPG (and all the >other books, except for YAH. Not _MY_ fault they wanted to give it to me). >Using that art is something I keep wanting to mention to someone on-high. >Since I've already gone -way- passed the art limitations the Online Policy >allows concerning In Nomine. Send me some private email on this, and I'll forward it along to people who will be able to give the proper permissions. (In the meantime, one supposes you could always rotate the character sheets to keep within the limitations... O;> ) > Besides which, you _DO_ want to buy the IPG. It's a good book! Yup. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:48:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine At 8:48 PM -0400 9/29/99, David Edelstein wrote: [someone else wrote...] >>>>This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any >resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy >Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems.<<< I've seen the Sailor Moon system used well in a hybrid -- resonances keep the CD format, but everything else seems to be based off Forces in a funky kind of way. Not being the GM (or familiar with the Sailor Moon system), I'm not sure what the arcane transformations are, but it's loads of fun. Especially when one's prim and proper, male-vesseled Seraph of Judgment winds up being a cross-gendered Sailor Scout... The gender-swap doesn't bother him so much as the outfit. And the age. And the fact that his previous, dignified vessel got un-aged down to teenager and who's going to respect his dignity _NOW_?? Oh, and that the one time he's gone celestial since, his elegant Seraphic form had turned sparkly and humanoid. Ahem. It's been a very loony fun. Hm. What about the Toon system? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:12:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance At 2:45 PM -0400 9/30/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Actually, they're explicitly allowed to appear like they care, as I >recall. CF the Djinn and the "cuddlespace" attunement. In part >because when they trash the 'relationship' the fall will cheapen and >degrade the partner further. There's some stuff on this in the Superiors 2 playtest -- the original dissonance conditions say that you're not supposed to _appear_ to care, while that's obviously almost impossible to manage with the Djinn attunement. Not to mention that if they can't fake it, they can't really seduce effectively. Nevertheless, most Lusties are likely to "care" about as much as they care for the handling of a fine wine. You don't shake it up or abuse it, lest the flavor be lost. That doesn't mean you give a damn if it gets motion sick or not. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:29:39 -0500 From: "Trent" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors > > Don't forget that Jean's attunements probably need to be changed as well, > > though to some extent you may be able to change the trappings and keep > > the general behavior of the attunements. > > > > i had some vague ideas about jeanites running around with clockwork-powered > gizmos... Acctually if Ralph is still around jean may be a minor archangel like he was before absorbling half of Ralph's word (at least IMC). This jean would focus on only the literal word of Lighning (and perhaps the spark of inspiration) and would be more friendly to Janus among other things. Trent Ofinite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:16:07 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Trey Reilly wrote: > > >(1) I have a *really* hard time believing any of this would > >make public circulation on Earth. I mean, the IN Earth is > >completely oblivious about the demise of Raphael, the recall > >of Uriel, the madness and alienation of Gabriel, and the > >trial of Michael, not to mention the very existence of > >important Archangels like Dominic. > > IMC, I assume that the Pope is kinda up on Celestial politics. He *is* the > Pope, after all. Can't be the earthly representitive to God without some > sort of communication to Above. And there's no greater gossip center than > the higher ranks of the Church. > > So while the regular population of the earth might not ever find out, the > internal speculation within the Church would be a cause of some serious > strife. > > --Trey > Cherub of Gaming Conventions > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com You should try reading an old, mid to late 70s book, called, IIRC, The Gemini Contenders -- the object of decades of trouble turns out to be [reputedly] a recantation by Peter of The Gospel, denying Jesus, saying Christianity is a fake and the Resurrection is a Balseraphic Big Lie. If true, and the papers are of the right age, with ink that is proper to the time and place of mid 1st century Rome, then _all_ of Christianity falls; if true, but made under duress, a forced confession, then Christianity still falls; if false, Christianity's detractors can use them as true documents to try and cause the fall of all Christendom. Clearly, in IN terms, a Kobalic instrument of Malphas, sowing discord and confusion everywhere, regardless of Truth or Falsity. The only way for the Church and its Celestial supporters to even come close to winning, is to keep them from ever coming to light at all, keeping them hidden. But what is a poor Seraph to do about so much lying? And how is the Seraphic Council going to handle this knowledge? I mean, what if Litheroy or his Servitors found out about all this, especially in light of their Dissonance conditions [crosses fingers and hopes he remembers Litheroy's DCs properly]? Tom, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in Hell!" --"Strange Blood" "A Wolfrider's Reflection", various artist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:04:59 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Eeyore > > I believe that clockwork is more recent than the time frame you were talking > about as well, being mostly a Renaissance invention. Lightning may have it > ahead of time, but Servitors will need to be careful with it. > i realised clockwork wasn't really appropriate for the people of the time, but i've always had my jeanites equipped ahead of the cutting edge. the modern-day game i ran had guys turning up with energy weapons. handy, but better not let humans get hold of 'em unless you want a dissonance mambo. i suppose the clockwork thing was more inspired by arabian nights. also, the background of the campaign would tie into charlemagne mythology, so a lot of the magic described in there could actually have been technology if i was going to run a victorian-age IN game (and that idea appealed to me as well) i'd probably let jeanites get hold of falkenstein/deadlands/WIld Wild West-style steam gadgets. and of course you wouldn't be able to move for the vapulan mad scientists... liam Demon of Never Writing Good Ideas Down ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:07:05 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Trey Reilly > > I'm reading Umberto Eco's _Foucalt's Pendulum_ right now, one of my favouritist books ever :) it pretty much inspired me to run an ongoing conspiracy-based lrp game, which in turn filtered into the chaotic conspiratorial IN campaign i ran liam angel of red wine (good for the heart, you know) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:09:14 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Andrealphus and Dissonance From: Whistling in the Dark > > Actually, they're explicitly allowed to appear like they care, as I > recall. CF the Djinn and the "cuddlespace" attunement. In part > because when they trash the 'relationship' the fall will cheapen and > degrade the partner further. > i don't really have this problem, as i don't like running demon games, but if i did i'd just rely on my players being good enough roleplayers to admit to their character being dissonant. i wouldn't have them playing my game if i thought they'd "cheat" to avoid dissonance liam angel of camcorders ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:58:15 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Walter Milliken > > Or steam... IN Steampunk? > i was originally thinking steam-power, but then thought that be a little too advanced for the 700s, even for jean's lot > Another thought I've had is that these attunements had more of a magical > flavor to them in past times, which were more accepting of miracles and > magic than modern times. I.e., Jean's attunements have manifestations > that match humankind's current understanding of the physical universe. > So Roger Bacon's brass head (I think it is) might have been the prior > manifestation of the Elohite of Lightning attunement. top idea :) liam demon of the dance floor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:15:48 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: Trent > > Acctually if Ralph is still around jean may be a minor archangel like he was > before absorbling half of Ralph's word (at least IMC). This jean would focus > on only the literal word of Lighning (and perhaps the spark of inspiration) > and would be more friendly to Janus among other things. > yeah, i was kind of imagining him as being a bit of a nobody (at least in archangel terms), much like vapula. he'd pretty much be a stooge to yves and raph. still, i'm too much of a gadgets-fan to miss out on the opportunity :) i could see someone like zadkiel being more powerful as well, in those times you had a lot of people hiding in castles or wandering around in armour. there was a lot more protecting to do, and i can see servitors of zaddy charging around on horseback in their shiny plate (well, chain mail) liam malakite of malpractice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:30:34 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 15:00 -0400 9/30/99, Eeyore wrote: >>i had some vague ideas about jeanites running around with clockwork-powered >>gizmos... > >I believe that clockwork is more recent than the time frame you were talking >about as well, being mostly a Renaissance invention. Lightning may have it >ahead of time, but Servitors will need to be careful with it. Well, Da Vinci certainly was playing with gear trains in the Renaissance, but I don't know how much further back they go before him. Probably back to the origin of windmills, anyway, which is apparently somewhere around 1000 AD. Actual clockwork comes much later, but there's plenty of primitive machinery back in Classical times. And there are the stories of Daedelus, as well. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:34:55 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nominizing the WOD From: Benjamin Acosta > > Wraith: Haven't figured it out yet. Any ideas? These are the souls of the dead who, not having achieved either their Destiny or their Fate, and having managed to resist either reincarnating or dispersing, have carved out a section of the Marches and named it Stygia. The Far Kingdoms would be various etherial subrealms, and the Shadow would be the influence of Kronos, trying to drag them down to Hell. Transcendance would, by extension, be the path toward Heaven. > Changeling: Refugees from Arcadia in the Far Marches, Changelings > survived the Purity Crusade by hiding among humanity. Which they refer to as the Shattering. Sweet! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:34:20 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 15:29 -0400 9/30/99, Trent wrote: >Acctually if Ralph is still around jean may be a minor archangel like he was >before absorbling half of Ralph's word (at least IMC). This jean would focus >on only the literal word of Lighning (and perhaps the spark of inspiration) >and would be more friendly to Janus among other things. In my campaign, Jean, Gabriel, David, and Janus all have an affinity as "elemental Words". I also cast Jean in the role of a somewhat-reluctant Prometheus, being responsible for motivating humans to understand and use the physical corporeal world. (I think Elizabeth has posted my quote for him on how many lightning-struck trees it took to get humans to discover fire....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:39:08 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) erisraven@crosswinds.net wrote: > I joined the list after the message; could I also beg this same boon? I've sent Eris and JadePsion a copy of the file in question. Rather than post it to the list again after only posting it last week, I'll happily post a copy to anyone who had a problem with it (Word97 format). - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:54:32 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 15:58 -0400 9/30/99, Liam Astley wrote: >From: Walter Milliken >> Or steam... IN Steampunk? > >i was originally thinking steam-power, but then thought that be a little too >advanced for the 700s, even for jean's lot Not necessarily, since Hero built a steam engine in classical times, albeit a not-very-useful one. Maybe the Lightning bunch skipped over reciprocating engines and went straight to steam turbines. (Seems like something Ofanim might dream up....) Since celestial artifacts don't break easily, they wouldn't have been hindered by materials problems. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:42:49 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors >Not necessarily, since Hero built a steam engine in classical times, >albeit a not-very-useful one. Maybe the Lightning bunch skipped over >reciprocating engines and went straight to steam turbines. (Seems like >something Ofanim might dream up....) Since celestial artifacts don't >break easily, they wouldn't have been hindered by materials problems. My proble with this is that IMHO angels are not as creative as humans. They may know more of the grand scale of things but they, at least by my standards, lack the let's just call it free will to truly create. Even Eli in my opinion is more an inspirer than an actual creater. but that's just my thing. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:51:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Stopping Spammers (Remember that s u b s c r i be word for the time being.) >Reply-To: "Trent" >From: "Trent" >To: "IN List" > >> >> (why would anyone who doesn't want to >> subscribe want to post, anyhow?) >> > >I would. Because of funky things with msn that i'm currently connceting >though the internet with, using my roomates login and a lan connection I >cannot send mail with anything but webmail and msn addresses. Note the >hotmail address. The address I s u b s c r i b e d to cannot send mail to the list. > >Trent > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:55:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Derek K." Subject: IN> IN Crossovers/conversions - the dark side. Forget wimpy cross overs and conversions like WoD and GURPS - let's get to some of the good ones. IN/Call of Cthulhu. Apparently not _all_ the gods were wiped out. Enjoy hours of fun trying to convince Yog-shoggoth and Cthulhu itself not to rip out your spine and swallow your intestines! Travel to Ryleth and visit famous places! Enlist archaeologists and researchers in your quest to save humanity. Whether or not that demon is corrupting a soul or two becomes fairly irrelevant when Mad Genius #232 from Arkham's Mad Genius Hut is once again trying to summon Elder Gods. IN/Paranoia. "Gab-R-iel-1, this is El-O-Him-3. We have spotted the mutant commie demon, and will proceed with extreme caution. I have him in my sights. I am engaging my Supreme-Will-Plasma-Discharger. Oh Yves! It's backfiring! I've . . . accidentally . . . really, accidentally, killed Sera-P-Him-4! Call R&D quickly! Az-R-ael-3 is coming for me! I think he wants to convert me! Trust the Computer! The Computer is your " IN/Rifts "You have destroyed the world. Oops." In Nomine: Time Travel, by Ben Glickler "Ok, so your vessel was possessed in 1680, throwing you back into the Heaven of TODAY, and you come back to TODAY in your second vessel, and then while you're travelling back in time, your ORIGINAL vessel is abandoned, so you get zapped back there..." IN/Toon. This would be just . . . wrong. But strangely insightful, I'd think. IN/D&D "You enter a 10x10 room. You see a green slime." "I wanna cast magic missle!" "You're an angel, stupid. You can't cast magic missle." "I wanna be angel who can cast magic missle!" "Okay, you cast magic missle." IN/AD&D. "I pull out my God's Big Sword of Smiting all the Demons and Stuff +111 and wave it at the orc. 'Repent or die!' What's my THAC0? Oooh - does anyone have Satan's stats? My multi-classed Elven Cherub/Balseraph is going to kick his ass, man. And then I'm going to become an Archangel, and then let my other character beat up God. Oooh - how many gold did I get for killing off all the demons in New Haven?" In Nomine: The Gathering. "Okay, so I tap 3 servants, 4 humans and 2 essence, and play my 'Black Demon Squoosher' for 300 damage." "Nuh-uh. I play my 'Archangel Michael' card that kills your squoosher." "Nuh-uh! I play my 'Demonic Interference' card, and it cancels Michael" "Oh yeah? I tap your demon and play 'Song of Shields' to cancel that!" And, finally, the most horrifying idea of all: IN/Macho Women With Guns. Don't even go there. Cheers, Derek K. Ofanite of Networks, in Service to the Illuminati. Hey, we can't all follow the Arch-angels. Habbalite of Sluggy, in Service to Bun-Bun. Ka-Click. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1347 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.