From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jul 14 15:59:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15339 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:59:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA22687 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:58:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:58:09 -0500 Message-Id: <200007142058.PAA22687@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1712 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1712 In this digest: IN> Fantasy Island Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? IN> My take on Christian In nomine Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? IN> Stephanie of Smack down Re: IN> Fantasy Island Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? IN> The Superiors books... Re: IN> The Superiors books... IN> Hearts. Re: IN> Hearts. Re: IN> Hearts. Re: IN> Hearts. Re: IN> Hearts. Re: IN> Hearts. IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1711 IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background IN> A new adventure seed (humor) IN> I Need a USA Source Re: IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background Re: IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background Re: IN> A new adventure seed (humor) IN> Kyriotates of Dreams hosts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:57:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Fantasy Island I *loved* this series for while it was briefly done though I wish it could have been done alittle more strongly though admittadly the orginal series didn't take itself very seriously and that was one of the main appeals. Roarke: In my mind Roarke isn't very Elohimly in my mind he's more the type of Seraph with his commanding, take no nonesense type of lifestyle. The orginal Roarke might have been more like a Mercurian but I still got the "regal, I am in charge" type thing going there. You can see him doing the resonances for both however with each show starting. In my mind he actually is the Angel of Fantasy and a servitor of Balandine. Basically he takes people's dreams and he shows them what they really should need or dream about....but he always fufills them. Besides I couldn't imagine Mr. Roarke dueling with the Devil (who often made guest appearences on Fantasy Island) without him being a Seraph. Cal and the Cooking guy from Fraiser: These two I saw as Dream-shades that Roarke removed for his own usage. Neither fufilled their destinys or fates and thus their working off their Cosmic bad karma until the time they do fufill their destiny's and can go onto heaven. Thus why they can't leave the island. Ariel: Whether she's a Bright Lilim or not (I can certainly see it) I do on the other hand wonder if she's actually more or less one of those Christian/Islamic (the latter I doubt sincerely) Ethereals we keep on hearing about. In fact one might wonder if mr. Roarke taking on black suits instead of white indicates he now serves Gabrielle instead of Baladine. The Island Itself: I definately agree that this is mostly in the Ethereal Marches but I think it's best described as a Dream-Realm Tether to Heaven (if Tethers can exist in the Marches why not?). Explaining how Roarke can bring it into the Mortal world would be a time and a half however.... I prefer the Island that doesn't move personally and a tether to Baladine or just Roarke alone (explaining his awesome control over the area-he's a very minor archangel) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:14:20 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Maurice Lane wrote: > Is the purchase of RPG-related material tax deductable > if a), you wish to sell creative work to the RPG in > question; b), the producers of the RPG explicitly > state that a familiarity with their work is essential > to would-be writers and artists; and c), you actually > do sell creative work for cash money? According to my mother (who is an IRS auditor, and who thus told me exactly what I can claim deductions for ): (a) No (b) No (c) Maybe Basically, you have to show that something you bought was a work-related expense (and freelance jobs do count). For example, I can (and did) claim deductions for a number of books on angelology and religion that I bought as part of my research for the GMG. I could also claim deductions for any RPG books I bought because I needed them as part of my research. (Since I get all my In Nomine books free, it's kind of moot, but if for example White Wolf offered me a writing assignment, and I had to go out and buy the Vampire rulebook to familiarize myself with the setting, I could claim it as a deduction.) Claiming some books as a deduction because you're *hoping* you'll be able to get a writing assignment making use of them would be kind of like buying a car and claiming it as a deduction because you're *hoping* to get a job as a taxi driver.... If you actually get a writing contract, then you can claim the books as deductions retroactively (provided it's within the same tax year). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:09:05 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? At 3:13 PM -0400 7/13/00, Walter Milliken wrote: > >In general, business expenses are tax-deductible. The joker in there is >the word "business".... > >The IRS will generally only accept it as a business expense if you actually >make money at it. In other words, you must make more income from the >business than your expenses. If you don't, they classify it as a hobby, >not a business, and deny the deductions. There are some exceptions to this >which mostly seem to be oriented toward the fact that real businesses >sometimes lose money for a year or two, and then turn profitable. Well, during my *halcyon* days in the theater, I really didn't have trouble claiming business expenses for things like costuming, necessary travel and so forth. I guess it's a YMMV situation. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:18:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > IANALB (I Am Not A Lawyer But)... I think that you'd have to manage > either C, or already be an author who can wave published work around > to lend credence to your story. If you write (and have published) > a few Pyramid articles, that would probably suffice for already being > an author. If you buy it, and write some Pyramid articles that are > then published in the requisite amount of time to qualify for C, > you may be golden. However, you do have to be able to make a case for those particular books being relevant to the work-for-pay that you did -- i.e., just because you wrote an In Nomine article for Pyramid, you can't claim every RPG supplement you bought that year as a "business expense." Well, you COULD, but better hope you don't get audited.... (Or if you do, that the auditor is clueless about RPGs and easily persuaded. The first is likely, the second, not.) > Who knows, maybe some spiffy rejection letters will at least prove > you tried. I don't think that something bought for the purposes of trying to _obtain_ work counts, but I'll ask my mother if you want to be sure. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:24:15 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Walter Milliken wrote: > The IRS will generally only accept it as a business expense if you actually > make money at it. In other words, you must make more income from the > business than your expenses. If you don't, they classify it as a hobby, > not a business, and deny the deductions. Ah yes, forgot about that. And this can be a double-edged sword. For those of you who actually make a significant amount of money writing freelance (and as Walter points out, if you make more than you spent, it's "significant"), here's an unpleasant surprise that my mother was kind enough to enlighten me about -- you have to pay social security and all the various other withholdings on your freelance income, not just include it in your base income. That cost me over $1000 this year. :( > Even though Elizabeth has a title and is > pretty clearly doing this professionally.... Not when she's not getting paid, she isn't. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:27:31 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Well, during my *halcyon* days in the theater, I really didn't have > trouble claiming business expenses for things like costuming, > necessary travel and so forth. I guess it's a YMMV situation. It also depends a lot on how much you're claiming. A couple hundred dollars for things like costumes, books, etc. will rarely appear on the IRS's radar. If you're claiming several thousand dollars in business-related expenses, OTOH, that's more likely to attract attention. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:13:16 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? At 3:14 PM -0500 7/13/00, David Edelstein wrote: > >Claiming some books as a deduction because you're *hoping* you'll be >able to get a writing assignment making use of them would be kind of >like buying a car and claiming it as a deduction because you're *hoping* >to get a job as a taxi driver.... If you actually get a writing >contract, then you can claim the books as deductions retroactively >(provided it's within the same tax year). > >-David Precisely my understanding as well. Of course, the only actual books that I purchased to date that I'd be claiming are the office copies I got so I could get in work on my freelance assignment after hours without slowing down. So by those lights, I'm right in there. (The rest of those things? If I didn't get them free, I got them in 1999 or before. Doesn't count. ) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:36:21 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? At 3:27 PM -0500 7/13/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: >> Well, during my *halcyon* days in the theater, I really didn't have >> trouble claiming business expenses for things like costuming, >> necessary travel and so forth. I guess it's a YMMV situation. > > >It also depends a lot on how much you're claiming. A couple hundred >dollars for things like costumes, books, etc. will rarely appear on the >IRS's radar. If you're claiming several thousand dollars in >business-related expenses, OTOH, that's more likely to attract >attention. *That,* I can believe. I was more than a little concerned that some of my home office/electronic business expenses for my day job would get me tagged (not that I couldn't withstand the audit, but it'd be a pain), but it must have clocked in below said radar. (I was also perfectly honest, so the Seraph didn't catch me.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:34:16 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? At 3:24 PM -0500 7/13/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >> The IRS will generally only accept it as a business expense if you actually >> make money at it. In other words, you must make more income from the >> business than your expenses. If you don't, they classify it as a hobby, >> not a business, and deny the deductions. > >Ah yes, forgot about that. And this can be a double-edged sword. For >those of you who actually make a significant amount of money writing >freelance (and as Walter points out, if you make more than you spent, >it's "significant"), here's an unpleasant surprise that my mother was >kind enough to enlighten me about -- you have to pay social security and >all the various other withholdings on your freelance income, not just >include it in your base income. That cost me over $1000 this year. :( Let's say it all together... Self Employment Tax! Whoo hoo! - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:50:53 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? >The rule of thumb to keep in mind is that the IRS has a *much* higher >audit rate on self-employed people, primarily related to expense claims. >That's why I never bother to claim expenses -- it's not worth saving $100 >or so in taxes if it also gets me audited. Don't know if it's the same your side of the pond, but over here, if you claim expenses against tax, the bank reckons you're a business and starts charging you accordingly. Even when I wrote profits from a commercial PBM game on my tax form as 'isolated creative activity' (or whatever the odd bit of free lance writing is called), I spent a fun three hours convincing my bank manager that the PBM business was 'pin money'. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:41:48 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> My take on Christian In nomine >No, please go on and do so, and post it. I, at least, am >interested in such variations. I understand the necessity >for IN to be marketed in an interdenominational manner, but >I think the game would be more vivid if tied to real religions. >(The GM Guide even gives recommendations for doing this.) Thank you. Here's my take on it really. Special thanks to David for helping with this portrayal and God for just being that nice guy he is. God: Basically in this game God is not distant from the rest of Heaven and sits on the top of the Celestial Heriachy. You don't need to go very far to speak with him and his door is always open. The way he appears depends on the Celestial but some good suggestions are in Pyramids angels in the architecture 1. He's a prayer away. Unfortunately those expecting the big guy to resolve every little issue in Heaven or even the major ones have another thing comming. For very strange reasons he's a firm advocate of letting people work things out for themselves and is quick to point out free will is the gift he's given everyone. His advice is very similar to "Do what your heart tells" you and listen for as much as you can talk. (Needless to say he already knows everything about your problems but he recognizes the need to purge sometimes and work through issues in your head). Questions about the nature of existence from why he created the universe to why humanity exists etc will get a straight answer that usually leaves people thinking "That's it?". Most Superiors have ceased to go to him for answers because for the most part they're either frustrated with his own or acknowledge he's always with them anywho. Also as a note he doesn't coddle those who lie or self delude: attempts to put one over on him will be brutally taken apart and the truth of the matter shown as to motives and exactly why one believes what one does-assuming you asked. Jesus: A Major superior if one chooses to follow him, Jesus is pretty much exactly like the New Testament describes him and the Prince of Peace he is. Despite thoughts to the contrary the debate on Jesus is still unresolved whether Jesus is a facet of God or not. Asking God and Jesus has mostly been inconclusive because God and Jesus both say "Yes he's my son" and "Yes I am God" but that can be taken so many ways....(the few times they roll their eyes is when they hear this). Jesus's servitors include Saints, Soldiers, and Celestials but they're all apparently equal in this point and it's dissonant for them to love anything above God (money, power, your own hatred towards a being, etc). It's a dissonant condition with inarguably the most far reaching consequences. The Holy Spirit: Yves (probably better spelt YVHS) basically fits this bill in my opinion sharing God's wisdom and connection with all of humanity. Questions asking whether or not Yves is a facet of God or not basically yield answers similar to God and Jesus with alot more smiling. Gabrielle's relationship with him is probably much stronger by inpsiriation. Ths Superiors: Mostly unchanged though as one might expect their concerns are alittle less on edge. God's proximity and occasionally his help as a Sounding board (along with Jesus) has led them to work alittle more harmoniously though Jordi is still concerned animals arn't getting as much attention as humans, Dominic is still concerned about Eli, and gabrielle is stil wild and fiery. Still doubt and the like exist if they choose to have it, fallings are rare and usually explosive. I see Blandine as patroness of the Pagan religeons (not much to do really quite now) and saw it as her duty to guide them to higher spiritual concepts. Since Uriel's crusade (he was brought to God and never seen again-likely most believe he joined with the Symphony forever like many souls) she has been depressed and sleepy. Khalid I think considers it a minor point that Islamics don't accept Jesus as more than a prophet but I see him as much more concerned that they are violent and becomming repressive (just as Laurence was with Catholics). Much more a nationalistic than militant. He was never in danger of falling but he does think with his heart more often than he should. Likely minor patrons of Buddhism and the like also exist though knowing the truth lends them to try and merge thoughts more often than not with Christian religeon-they do however recognize that Christianity has been corrupted to be as nationalistic as other religeons. Truth is so hard to give in undiluted form. Michael is patron of the Hebrew Religeon (he considers Christianity an offshoot and part of it which annoys Laurence to no end as he wants to patron of Christianity in total-little pride there he can't get rid of) and you may want to make the fiery Metatron as well still alive. The Higher Heavens: Open for visitation but still hard to comprehend as they are joining with the higher power and becomming less and less "understandble" in their purity and issues. Focus becomes a problem....but for a while any angel, soul, or the like can bathe in them....one merely needs to accepting of it. Purgatory: If you want to do a Catholic Christian game this place would be basically inbetween Heaven and Hell like the Marches where people are put through Fanatsy-Island like sequences of torture, self revelation, and chosen pennane to try and overcome their self-doubt and become worthy of Paradise. Inventive Refs might combine this with the Marches in a way and make Blandine queen of Purgatory. In the latter case the Ethereal Gods would either be living in their principalties in Hell, many allied with Heaven here, and the rest staying on Earth or in their own self created dimensions. Ethereals: I like the idea Blandine or God created them but they're fine the way they stand. Many might be Celestials who forgot their orginal way (The Grigori-The Nephilim) and have their own history. So many possibilities. Hell: More or less Hell works the same way that it stands, some demons are more evil than others and it is an asylum where the innmates are running it. However unlike in In Nomine the situation is definately more deseprate and panicked with God and Jesus running about (or actually-they kinda just stay where they are but Hell is imaginative in their descriptions). Elaborate Habbalah justifications (Satan actually isn't God's enemy, Eventually God will change his mind and take us back, we have to prove ourselves equal to the monkeys in his eyes etc) and viler actions are common due to their fear and general nastiness (when overwhelmed-strike harder). Asmodeus has his hands full and the demons do their best to make Evil seem every bit as mysterious and awe-inspiring as Good. Lucifer is less withdrawn and enjoys taking appearence on Earth to tempt the Faithful personally and takes personal joy in trying to disrupt mankind's careful faith in judgement day (destroying the world is Baal's love because Free will means they have a ticket to avoid Revelations) Brightness, Darkness, etc is not effected on Earth because of what I just said above. Songs of banishment and cleansing should be more available to priests and holy men in my opinion and prophets more common due to Yves's activity. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:18:39 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > *That,* I can believe. I was more than a little concerned that some > of my home office/electronic business expenses for my day job would > get me tagged (not that I couldn't withstand the audit, but it'd be a > pain), but it must have clocked in below said radar. (I was also > perfectly honest, so the Seraph didn't catch me.) Keep in mind also, the IRS can only audit a finite number of people. According to my mother, there are certain things that will "flag" your return as more likely to get audited, but it's also somewhat random, which is why the squeaky-clean guy with nothing unusual in his return might get audited the same year that the used car salesman who claimed a dozen trips to Vegas as business expenses might squeak past. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:39:57 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Stephanie of Smack down Hehehe a very good creation. I like her. And will probably use her. - -Charles Phipps ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:53:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Island - --- Marc Bowden wrote: > Is it a bad sign that I was flipping channels, > stopped on SFC, and > had these thought as my first reaction? Hardly. Friday night is INTV. First Brimstone on SciFi at 7pm (the tale of Lucifer's own infernal saint, tasked with killing 113 demons on Earth), followed by Twin Peaks on Bravo at 8pm. (I also watch Lexx with an eye towards using is at as a HoL campaign 8-) bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:06:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Fairly odd question: possibly shading OT? - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Keep in mind also, the IRS can only audit a finite > number of people. > According to my mother, there are certain things > that will "flag" your > return as more likely to get audited, but it's also > somewhat random, > which is why the squeaky-clean guy with nothing > unusual in his return > might get audited the same year that the used car > salesman who claimed a > dozen trips to Vegas as business expenses might > squeak past. Nothing to do with The Game. Further inquiries will yield nothing. bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:31:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: IN> The Superiors books... I haven't had a chance to plunge into 3 yet, but I've liked the others so far... One thing I'd like to see in future volumes, is 'tripwires' (or 'stumbling blocks') for Archangels, and 'stepstools' for DPs. These would be sidebars would potential paths for falling and redemption for each superior, such as Dominic prejudging Eli, frex. Just a wish... bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:20:40 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> The Superiors books... >One thing I'd like to see in future volumes, is >'tripwires' (or 'stumbling blocks') for Archangels, >and 'stepstools' for DPs. These would be sidebars >would potential paths for falling and redemption for >each superior, such as Dominic prejudging Eli, frex. I suspect for Archangels it can be much the same as for any other of their respective choir. Discord and Dissonance can drive the mightiest to fall. Others might have plans to drop out, but this is not the same as joining Hell, there is just no way I can see Eli or for that matter any current Archangel joining Hell. Other potential trips for AA's can be drawn from how they are viewed by other AA's, eg, Dominic is too closed and obsessed with internal matters to see the wider truth. Demon Princes might decide to go renegade. I seem to remember Lilith has some sort of contingency plan along these lines, (where was that - anyone?) and maybe some others have similar emergency plans. The problem is that I cannot see any DP surviving for long, they would be under direct threat from both sides. A demon might go renegade and not be noticed for a while, a DP would since it is a monumental event. In some games I have been working on Lilith has been considering the idea of escaping Hell. She has an advantage in that she is human so can wander the Corporeal with less hassle and potential disturbance. I have even had her meet with Eli now and then, Creation and Freedom could be a very powerful combination in shaping humanity, rebels with a real cause.... Ashley Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:30:12 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Hearts. Do Archangels and Demon Princes have hearts? What happens to a celestial's heart when he is elevated to Superior status? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:12:19 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Hearts. ben wrote: > > Do Archangels and Demon Princes have hearts? > > What happens to a celestial's heart when he is elevated to Superior status? You're not cleared for that. O:;:) Seriously, though, nobody knows except for the Superiors themselves, and they ain't talking. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2000 17:31:50 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Hearts. On Thu, 13 July 2000, "ben" wrote: > > Do Archangels and Demon Princes have hearts? > > What happens to a celestial's heart when he is elevated to Superior status? Em once speculated that a Superior's Cathedral/Principality is its Heart. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:42:06 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Hearts. John Karakash wrote: > > Do Archangels and Demon Princes have hearts? > > > > What happens to a celestial's heart when he is elevated to Superior status? > nobody knows except for > the Superiors themselves, and they ain't talking. It has been speculated, however, that a Superior's Heart is his/her/its cathedral. At least I think it has. Perhaps on the IN boards. Which would, of course, bring up the question of Lucifer's Cathedral of Light (and possibly those of other Fallen Superiors as well). But Lucifer is an exception to a lot of rules. (personally, I think this could be proof that Lucifer never actually fell. He rebelled, but still works according to The Plan as God has mapped it out, and thus remains a Seraph. Or something.) A couple other possibilities are the their hearts are kept in the Upper Heavens (or, in the case of Demon Princes, by Lucifer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons he keeps control of Hell so easily. He can make all his Princes dance by tugging at their heartstrings ^_^), are kept hidden in their cathedrals, simply vanish, or are made part of the firmament of Heaven or Hell. Cheers, -Ryan "And Jesus was a sailor, as he walked across the water And he spent a long time watching from his lonely wooden tower And when he was certain only drowning men could see him He said all men would be sailors then until the sea shall free them But he himself was open long before the sky would open Forsaken, almost human, he sank beneath your wisdom Like a stone." -Leonard Cohen, Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:54:05 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts. > > What happens to a celestial's heart when he is elevated to Superior status? > > > You're not cleared for that. O:;:) > > Seriously, though, nobody knows except for > the Superiors themselves, and they ain't talking. I'm assuming that, whatever happens, it benefits the new Superior. I imagine it'd suck for Furfur if Belial had unfettered access to his heart. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:41:30 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts. Night Music mentions that Furfur has to be careful not to die until he gets a Principality, I believe. Sean ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1711 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:10:03 -0400From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Island >I don't know about that. I always thought Ariel was >the Bright, with songs of Form, Charm, Attraction, >and Dreams. I never *quite* worked out who the >Malcolm McDowell Roarke would be. >Is it a bad sign that I was flipping channels, >stopped on SFC, and had these thought as my first >reaction? >Marc. Just Marc. No. It's only a bad sign when you do this for television shows that have _nothing_ to do with angels, demons or theology. For a while, I was half-seriously considering doing a writeup for MTV's "Undressed".* Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Goodbad Entertainment *Yes, now you know my secret shame. We've all got one. Still, it makes a kinda weirda*s sense if you think of the show as a unending battle between a Kyrio of Creation and a Shedite of Lust... :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:15:04 -0500 (CDT) From: edg@pyramid.sjgames.com Subject: IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background Mariel, Ofanite Archangel of Flight Mariel nearly died when Haagenti rose to power. She almost didn't care when he came up to her and bit down, swallowing up chunks of her faster than she could possibly notice. She let him eat all but the last of her. But that last part whispered, softly, "I don't want to die." And somehow - Mariel thinks, in her deepest, most secret thoughts, that perhaps God granted her a wish, even after all the damage she had done to His forces and His reputation - Haagenti stopped, and turned away. Perhaps he thought he was finished. Perhaps he noticed her plea for help and once, in his miserable existence, had a bit of mercy. Even now she questions it. Is this all just a dream? Have the centuries she's experienced since her near-demise at the jaws of Haagenti been nothing but a few microseconds before his teeth clamp down on the rest of her? The angels around her comfort her, and assure her that all is real. But they would, wouldn't they? Mariel fears very deeply that all of the love she feels is just a sad hallucination. When Haagenti turned away, Mariel fled. A mere stripling, having sacrificed her Word-forces along with her personal Forces, she willed with all her might to go to the corporeal realm, and just as powerfully to destroy her Heart. Some argue that a second miracle happened at that moment; she has no other explanation for both happening almost immediately. Trapped on Earth, she sought out the nearest angelic Tether. Nearly dying had snapped something in her, and the Renegade Once-Princess now wanted desperately to free herself of the chains of Oblivion and of Hell. She wanted to /live/. She was lucky that the first angel who found her was a Mercurian. She had been passed by by three demons before Xamien came along, and he himself mistook her for a homeless girl in the wilderness - not realizing how right he was. When she revealed herself outside of the Tether of Destiny he'd taken her to, Xamien called up to Yves himself, who spent the next hundred years Redeeming Mariel - and when she emerged from Yves's Cathedral, she was a shining Ofanite, burning with a love of life, of Heaven, of the world, and of being free. It was when Mariel first saw Leonaro DaVinci's work that she petitioned for the Word of Flight. It had belonged to a servitor of Jordi, long ago, an Ofanite by the name of Iddrasel who had been specially attuned to the pterosaurs; he had fallen with the dinosaurs, and now served Death as the Demon of Extinct Winged Creatures, named Garribal. Yves took Mariel to see Jordi, and the Archangel of Animals looked her over disdainfully. Finally a lion in the Savannah nodded to Yves, and he knew that Jordi had deemed her worthy. He himself went before the Seraphim Council to plead her case, and in fifteen years Mariel found herself with the Word of Flight. She kept busy after her Word was granted, promoting the concept of flight and the glory of those who flew. It was not until the turn of the twentieth century, however, that the Wright Brothers first flew their aeroplane at Kitty Hawk - though the advent of the hot-air balloon and other airborne modes of transportation served to boost her Word as well - and, as she, Yves, Jean, and Blandine watched the short flight from afar, Mariel suddenly felt her Word passing a threshold. In less than a week, testing was completed and Mariel was recognized and heralded throughout Heaven as the Archangel of Flight. Mariel has kept her old name as an angel - in Heaven. On Earth, most angels refer to her as "The Soaring One", in an attempt to convince Hell that the shattered Heart in the center of the Principality of Oblivion is, in fact, a sign of her death. She often stays in Heaven, and /only/ descends to Earth through Tethers - one of her favorite corporeal pasttimes is to take the shape of a seagull, and fly about Kitty Hawk, the site of her first Tether. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:03 -0500 (CDT) From: edg@pyramid.sjgames.com Subject: IN> A new adventure seed (humor) Really more of a situation than an adventure... which I guess is why it's a seed. ^_^ Possibly good for use at conventions, to introduce new players to the game. Characters: An angelic Seneschal (NPC). Elderly visage, obviously wiser than anyone else around. Has a history with each of the other characters - be it love, rivalry, or what have you. Seneschal of a Tether to Stone. An angel (NPC). Not around a lot; technically a servitor of the Seneschal, but he's often away from the Tether for no sufficiently explained reason. An angel (PC). Another, younger servitor of the Seneschal, he maintains the temple. He's also training in the martial arts. A demon (PC). A servitor of Theft, she was imprisoned in the Tether until the angel PC accidentally freed her. Is in love with the angel PC. A demon(ling) (NPC). The Theftie's pet/artifact, it normally appears as a rabbitish creature but can transform itself into other forms if the need arises. A renegade demon (PC). Once a servitor of Stone, she's now a demon serving The Game. Is in love with the angel PC, and is the Theftie's archrival. A renegade demon (PC). Once a servitor of Stone, she's now a demon of The Game. The first Gamester's little sister. Is vagely in love with the angel PC. A demon (N/PC). A powerful servitor of Technology. Claims to be the Theftie's "mother", created the demon NPC. Is in love with angel PC, always trying to run experiments on him. All of these characters live in one house near the Tether. Hilarity ensues. Tenshi Muyo!: No Need For Angels! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I Need a USA Source The title says it all: I want to pick up INS/MV, and while my girlfriend has gone to England to pick up a copy of the core rules* for me, but I'll need the rest of it, of course, and I'd rather get the supplements from a US vendor (it'll be mondo cheaper). Of course, I'll have to find a decent home instruction course in French, but I can do that on my own... :) Morgan *Actually, you could say that she's gone to England for other reasons. In fact, you should say that. Now that I think of it, IN is at the bottom of the list for reasons why she went to England, and the only reason it's on that list is because we've got an anniversary coming up. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:34:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background When I saw the subject line, I thought her Word would include flight in the sense of *escape*. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:55:29 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Archangel of Flight - background - --On Friday, July 14, 2000 10:34 AM -0500 Earl Wajenberg wrote: > When I saw the subject line, I thought her Word would include > flight in the sense of *escape*. > Given the circumstances, that may have been Yves' private joke all along. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("I *know* he knows all the words to 'Hai Calypso' by John Denver...") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:25:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A new adventure seed (humor) From: > > Tenshi Muyo!: > No Need For Angels! You forgot to include Mihoshi, but aside from that I loved it. ;;;) (Can't see her as a demon, though, so I'd make her a particularly incompetent Soldier of Dominic.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "David M. Barr" Subject: IN> Kyriotates of Dreams hosts Hi! Just reading Superiors 3, and the part about Kyriotates being able to be in more than one dreamscape at a time, while their host is asleep, struck. Given that, wouldn't it make sense for them to commonly choose hosts that sleep a lot? Like, for example, a Cat. Domestic cats often sleep 18 - 20 hours a day. I am not sure if this is pragmatic, or munchkin. But it certainly would explain why the Kyriotates (as a choir) get so much work done... - -daiv yet another haiku written for my signature why do i bother? ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1712 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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