From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 18 01:46:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32736 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:46:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA15040 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:44:41 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:44:41 -0600 Message-Id: <200001180744.BAA15040@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1497 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1497 In this digest: Re: IN> Why No INC Updates? (WAS: Dark Victory?) Re: IN> Dark Victory? Re: IN> Angelic titles Re: IN> Shards Re: IN> Request for ideas Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition IN> [ADMIN] NO HTML ON THE LIST. Re: IN> Angelic titles IN> Anti-Spam Update Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? IN> Chronology question Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Re: IN> Chronology question Re: IN> Request for ideas Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] IN> Artefact questions Re: IN> Artifact questions Re: IN> Artefact questions Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] Re: IN> Anti-Spam Update Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Re: IN> Dark Victory? IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Amad=E1n=27s?= In Nomine page -- moved! Re: IN> Shards Re: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Amad=E1n=27s?= In Nomine page -- moved! Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] IN> IN on the web Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:43:19 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Why No INC Updates? (WAS: Dark Victory?) > If you want to see updates, I'm certain you're willing to volunteer for > the postion. Right? _Right?!?_ };;;> I am. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:15:43 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Dark Victory? > I've had other writing tasks to hand, so I haven't had time to do anything > new for DV in a while. > > Nice to know there's still interest, though. Very *LARGE* amounts of interest, itz da' bom'. Are you accepting any contributions? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:47:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Angelic titles An undue concern with one's own titles would hint at vanity unbecoming in an angel. On the other wing, there's nothing wrong with a concern for your *friend's* dignity, and of course demons have a parallel system... I'd recommend one of two approaches -- either start with the most important title and work downward, or start with the least important and work upward to a grand finale. I can't pick which, though. The most important title possible to an angel would be its Word, if any. Then would come its distinction, if any, then choir and Archangel's word. Thus, in a build-up presentation, it would be, "Jack, Seraph of War, Master of Valor, Angel of Hand Grenades." I think it'd be "Angel of ____," not "[Choir] of ____" because one's Word even more important than one's choir. Also, that's how the IN books write it up, and tradition is important in matters like these... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:04:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Shards I like the Shards idea a lot. The idea that some Archangels, and I suppose some other Worded angels, are shards of Lucifer tickles me. David Rodemaker wrote: > None of the Host know the truth but Litheroy and Yves and they > really want to keep the truth hidden because the shards > still out there have a huge potential for power and > corruption *if* messed with. I thought that, as Archangel of Revelation, Litheroy was dead set against secrecy of any kind. I'd think that, if he learned he was a fragment of Lucifer, he blink, gulp, then say something like, "Oh, well, if I'm an Archangel, it must be okay with God and who can ask better? At least some good was salvaged out of it," then trumpet the news from the spires of the Celestial City. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:13:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Request for ideas If you want to make Alaemon even more secretive, perhaps the deadly secret could come from the servitor of some other Prince, in response to a favor called in by Alaemon. I don't know a lot about Alaemon and Litheroy beyond their Words, but perhaps the deadly secret could be something in the nature of espionage. "Servitors of Marc and Lilith are negotiating a mutually beneficial exchange of information on behalf of Judgement and the Game, down at the Savoy, at noon next Thursday." Of course, if this becomes KNOWN, both Judgement and the Game will have to pull out, both will be annoyed with the Seraph, and she will now have TWO Princes and an Archangel on her case. Or, for a more straightforward one, "Three angels are meeting a Worded renegade seeking redemption, down at the Savoy, at noon next Thursday." The Game is after the renegade even harder than usual, of course, and a secrecy leak would almost certainly delay or scuttle the redemption process. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:57:19 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether From: Whistling in the Dark > He'd jump up to Hell. And a nuclear bomb or > the like would go off, frying the Tether, but leaving all but one > Major Demon Prince in *Trauma.* And before the hidden away Demon > Princes could revive and come out (assuming the awake one didn't find > them anyway), there would be one Demon Prince on top of the heap and > nearly unassailable i can't see DPs being stuck in trauma for more than a day. sure, the active DP who set off the bomb could do a lot of damage to all the others while they were out for the count, but after a day or so they'd all wake up. then *all of them* would gang up and trash the DP who set off the bomb. liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:44:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Julian Breen wrote: > How *do* souls in Heaven cope when they realise that those once > close to them have gone to Hell? This is a theme occasionally touched on in literature. In Dante's Inferno, Dante meets friends, as well as enemies, down in Hell. He commiserates with them and promises to keep the memory of them green back on Earth -- that being about all he can do. Another reaction, I'd think, is "Oh, you bastard! WHY did you have to throw yourself away?!" -- A mixture of rage and grief similar that felt by the survivors of suicide victims. Angels might often feel the same about fallen once-friends. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:46:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition At 8:58 PM -0600 1/14/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >> >Probably add a section for Brights... >> I don't know -- that's really handled in the IPG already, a fair amount. > >Hmm. There is the extra write-up in whichever book it is (I don't feel like >getting up and checking) FotM, and it's a very cut down summary of what's in the IPG. >and I just feel like Brights belong in the APG. The >argument of if they are actually an angel makes sense, or something >_else_.... They're so rare, it's more likely a player of a Lilim will be interested in them... Or so I'd thought. _Would_ they really be better elsewhere than in the Redemption chapter of the IPG? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:46:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] NO HTML ON THE LIST. Everyone should have seen the "Nothing but plain, 7-bit ascii on the list" message (not in so many words) when they s u b s cribed to in_nomine-l. If you haven't, send me email and I'll forward you a copy. To reiterate, however, DO NOT send anything to the list that is HTML, MIME, or 8-bit "smartquotes" (also known as "curly quotes" -- no, MS Outlook thingy does not have those listed in its help files, to my knowledge). Of the three, HTML and MIME are the ones that will do the worst damage to things like... the digest. Anything that is HTML that goes to the digest will not come through as pretty, spiffy HTML. It will come through in the raw, with all the

and &nsbp codes showing. It's ugly, it's hard to read, it's a waste of bandwidth. Further, since Microsoft uses a few HTML codes that are all their own, it can _crash_ certain emailers (namely, mine) upon attempts to reply to or forward the message. You can imagine what that does to my temper. So don't do it. The digests include several repeats of the How To Turn Off HTML In Outlook Express/Explorer. If you can't find one, send me email and I'll do a search in my email box and forward you the information. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:46:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angelic titles At 10:49 AM -0600 1/15/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >How do angelic titles work in Canon? >Is it Jack, Seraph of War, Master of Valor, Vassal of the Sword, Angel of >Hand-Gernade's or is there some other order? Is it "Angel of Hand Gernades" >or "Seraph of Hand Gernades"? It's actually explicitly listed in, of all places, the Liber Castellorum. (The differences between a Word-bound Seneschal and a mere attuned Seneschal.) It's also in the Stylesheet, findable with a few clicks off of www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/writers (writing for In Nomine link, stylesheet link). Anyway, a generic Word-bound would be... Jack, Angel of Hand Grenades, Seraph Master of Valor. In QUARK coding, barring formatting necessity, a sample character is listed as: @C-HEAD:Jack @D-HEAD:Angel of Hand Grenades @D-HEAD:Seraph Master of Valor Since it's unheard of for a Distinction to be awarded before the lower one is given (even if a Superior "bumps" someone up two levels at once, he grants the Distinctions in order (*)), just listing the highest you've gotten from your Superior is fine even in Council. If you've gotten Distinctions from Superiors not your own, listing them in casual usage is probably unnecessary, but you would use them when you were in Council and being _very_ formal. Some Superiors have different conventions among their own Servitors, as is in the Superiors books, but the above is how they're supposed to be used by authors, barring deep immersion in one of those different conventions... O:> (And for the Quark codes, they should be pretty rigidly in that format...) (* GMs can do whatever the heck they feel like in their own personal games, but _man_ would it make things hard to keep track of if you gave out Distinctions "out of order"!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:46:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Anti-Spam Update Since I got no replies over the weekend that I could find, I have bumped the request up to the faceless io majordomo help address. Muwhahaha. (What I'm hoping to set up would be a list/file that started with the current s u b s cribers, updated with new ones, and which people could s u b s c r i b e to if they happend to either read off-list, or if their ISP randomly stuck in machine names in their From field. (Another source of evil bounces, curse it...). A spammer would not be likely to s u b s c r i b e to an Approved Poster list, and if they did, I'd see the automatic "s u b/u n s u b" message coming in and be able to NAIL the blighters!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:50:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether At 12:02 AM -0600 1/16/00, Justin Buhler wrote: >All you with You Are Here and/or Liber Casterellum should know this answer, >myself, I'm getting these and as such don't know the answer yet. But what is >the all-timwe, still around Diabolical Tether, like Notre Dame de Paris for >the Angels? So far, the only one that might count there is Liber Castellorum's House of the Morning Star -- a Tether to Lucifer himself. The Princes just aren't organized enough to have a Huge Shared Tether like the Archangels do. There are undoubtedly several very old infernal Tethers, but they're only to one or maybe two Princes... (This topic came up among the authors during hashing out the Final Trumpet stuff; it was finally decided that there's no one ancient spot of Ultimate Evil, or even cooperative evil.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:37:10 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> All-Time Diabolical Tether At 1:57 PM +0000 1/17/00, Liam Astley wrote: > >i can't see DPs being stuck in trauma for more than a day. sure, the active >DP who set off the bomb could do a lot of damage to all the others while >they were out for the count, but after a day or so they'd all wake up. then >*all of them* would gang up and trash the DP who set off the bomb. That's not a given, to be honest. Remember, Demon Princes are essentially paranoid, and Worst Case Scenarios rule the day, not Best Cases. More than likely they would recover fast -- but they don't *know* that. And what if their Servitors are suborned. Oh sure, a DP's heart is probably *well* hidden but who knows *who* might have found it, and what favors might be called in in return for a traumatized DP? And maybe they *won't* wake up in a day. It's not that the plan would be particularly successful -- it's that the Demon Princes would be paranoid over that or other betrayals. It comes back to Selfish versus Angelic Selflessness. Or so *I* see it, anyway. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:58:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? At 2:58 PM -0400 1/14/00, Richard Gant wrote: >On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>>[...]the content of the various In Nomine books were the actual TRUTH? >> >> And/or I start making sure the books are written the way _I_ want them, >> starting with [...] the IN RPG being adopted by the >> Americal Public School system and the various religious organizations, [...] >Which leads to this intersting mental image at church: > >The reader steps to the pulpit, and opens the oversized leather-bound book >in fron of him. From memory, he speaks: "A reading from the Infernal >Player's Guide, the Chapter of The Demonic Mind." We could probably get it translated _into_ Latin, if that would sound nicer... O:> Wouldn't he then go into interpretation/explanation of the paragraph he cited, though? So there would then be a long explanation of how one should avoid the selfish, demonic mindset...? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:54:16 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Chronology question Question for those of you who have the GMG: what's the exact date of Haagenti's overthrow and cannibalization of Meserach and Mariel (the Prince of Sloth and Princess of Oblivion)? The IPG briefly mentions this incident, but gives neither date nor details. I was wondering if the GMG went into the affair in any more depth, or at least provided an exact date. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:54:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? Elizabeth McCoy wrote, concering "a reading from the Demonic Player's Guide": > Wouldn't he then go into interpretation/explanation of the paragraph > he cited, though? So there would then be a long explanation of how one > should avoid the selfish, demonic mindset...? The reader might not, but the following sermon most likely would, if the format follows that of the churches I'm familiar with. Sometimes, the reader offers a sentence or two of framing comment. Now ask yourselves this: If IN were received as a true revelation, Songs and all, what do you think would be in the *hymnals*? "We will now sing verses one, two, and three of the Song of Healing, on behalf of our sister, Elizabeth." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:16:09 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Chronology question >Question for those of you who have the GMG: what's the exact date of >Haagenti's overthrow and cannibalization of Meserach and Mariel (the Prince >of Sloth and Princess of Oblivion)? 1009AD Meserach is eaten before his Princehood and Mariel following his ascension to it (sort of a victory feast). Hope that helps. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:28:45 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Request for ideas Earl Wajenberg wrote: > If you want to make Alaemon even more secretive, perhaps the > deadly secret could come from the servitor of some other Prince, > in response to a favor called in by Alaemon. Good point. I can see Alaemon calling in a favor from Lilith, or a Geas on a Lilim (the Prince of Secrets must hold nearly as many as Lilith herself) to engineer someone close to the angel becoming enmeshed in a conspiracy or some terrible secret, and then using that against the angel. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:04:49 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition At 12:46 PM -0500 01/17/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: [Bright Lilim in the APG vs IPG.] >They're so rare, it's more likely a player of a Lilim will be interested >in them... Or so I'd thought. _Would_ they really be better elsewhere than >in the Redemption chapter of the IPG? This is a tough call. In a perfect world, the Bright info would be bundled with Lilith's writeup. . . But that means giving her more pages and making the other Superiors suffer. Having the info in the IPG makes sense, especially since most demon PCs would like to know what the other side will be like. . . (Also, in a perfect world, it'd be nice to have all the Geas Mechanics from FotM put into the Lilim writeup in IPG 2e. . . But since that info is already available as an excerpt, or will become part of the Lilith Expanded Writeup. . . It's a moot point.) Having the info in the APG, for those angelic players who might be interested in playing Brights, is a good idea. But this means trimming away stuff, and mucking up page numbers (the biggest problem with new editions.) *phew* To close, I say that we aren't living in a perfect world, and that we'll have to deal with the info as is. . . (Option B, the Mammon point of view, would be to swap Bright Lilim and the Malakim sections. . . Forcing the players to buy BOTH books. };;;> ) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:30:23 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] Bright Lilim are defined more by the fact that they are redeemed demons and less by the fact that they are angels. They are also the exception, rather than the rule. These two premises being true, Bright Lilim belong firmly in the Infernal Players Guide. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:58:31 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Artefact questions Some questions that arose in a recent game... Is a relic/reliquary visible on the earth in the same that celestial forms are? Does its celestial nature allow it to be perceived through intervening barriers, or does the fact that it has a corporeal form shield it in much the same way that a vessel shields a celestial? How did the major ethereal entities/deities craft their relics when such items can only be created on the celestial plane? - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:30:37 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Artifact questions Julian Breen wrote: > Is a relic/reliquary visible on the earth in the same that celestial > forms are? No, but Symphonically aware beings get a Perception roll to perceive that an object is an artifact. >>> Does its celestial nature allow it to be perceived through > intervening barriers, No. >> or does the fact that it has a corporeal form> shield it in much the same way that a vessel shields a celestial? Yes. > How did the major ethereal entities/deities craft their relics when such> items can only be created on the celestial plane? That's not correct. Celestial and ethereal artifacts can be created on any plane, including the corporeal. However, it is more difficult to create an artifact if you are not able to travel to the appropriate plane and have no connection to it; i.e., mortals have great difficulty creating ethereal or celestial artifacts, and even ethereals have trouble creating celestial artifacts. This is reflected by penalties and time multipliers, detailed in the Liber Reliquarum. But it's not impossible. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:44:45 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Artefact questions At 11:58 PM +0000 1/17/00, Julian Breen wrote: >Is a relic/reliquary visible on the earth in the same that celestial >forms are? Does its celestial nature allow it to be perceived through >intervening barriers, or does the fact that it has a corporeal form >shield it in much the same way that a vessel shields a celestial? It's shielded. If it's being held by someone in celestial form, then it becomes visible just as the celestial form'ed fellow is. Of course, if you squint at something a moment, you get the usual Perception roll -- but you have to be able to see it, and give it more than a cursory glance. Or touch it. >How did the major ethereal entities/deities craft their relics when such >items can only be created on the celestial plane? You've got it backwards, actually -- on the celestial plane, _only_ relics/reliquaries can be crafted. (Unless you're a Superior.) In the Marches, you can make both talismans and relics/reliquaries, but not corporeal artifacts. (p. 18, maintext, of the Liber Reliquarum.) Mind, you generally need materials from the realm of the artifact -- which may mean you have to bargain with someone who can get there, or knows someone who can. (Say, a sorcerer...) Or you might have to steal same from the person who can get them. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:30:41 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition > >and I just feel like Brights belong in the APG. The > >argument of if they are actually an angel makes sense, or something > >_else_.... > > They're so rare, it's more likely a player of a Lilim will be interested > in them... Or so I'd thought. _Would_ they really be better elsewhere than > in the Redemption chapter of the IPG? Weeeellllll......... One of my campaigns is currently heavily centered around Eli and Yves, their Servitors, and Humans of all flavors - and it interfaces pretty tightly with the other campaign, which is centered around a Bright - and I'm faced with the continuing issue of "what exactly *is* a Lilim?" Not really a demon, not really an angel, and offspring of the only Word-bound Human... Anyway, there are arguments for both locations (and I do have both the APG and the IPG) - but if there *were* to be a future edition of the APG, I'd like to see Brights included in it. They may be rare, but they *are* treated as Angels. I don't have demonic PC's, so, of course, I'll cast my vote for putting all my eggs in the same basket. Although I expect that by the time there *is* a new APG, I'll have memorized both books anyway... Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:33:31 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? > > Now ask yourselves this: If IN were received as a true revelation, > Songs and all, what do you think would be in the *hymnals*? > > "We will now sing verses one, two, and three of the Song of Healing, > on behalf of our sister, Elizabeth." Oh my!!!! The *images* running through my head!!!! I'm swiping this. I have a Pentecostal church that my players seem to be trying to turn into a Major Hangout. Oooohhhhh.... (And to any of my players lurking on this list other than the one I know about, no, you have no *earthly* idea what I'm going to do with this one, either. So there. Nyah.) Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:34:54 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] > Bright Lilim are defined more by the fact that they are redeemed demons and > less by the fact that they are angels. They are also the exception, rather > than the rule. These two premises being true, Bright Lilim belong firmly in > the Infernal Players Guide. > But are they *really* demons? A Free Lilim, if I recall correctly, doesn't have a Heart... Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:37:37 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Spam Update Woohoo! Well done BEth. Three Cheers For Beth! Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:22:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> What if In Nomine were true? On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Which leads to this intersting mental image at church: > > > >The reader steps to the pulpit, and opens the oversized leather-bound book > >in fron of him. From memory, he speaks: "A reading from the Infernal > >Player's Guide, the Chapter of The Demonic Mind." > > We could probably get it translated _into_ Latin, if that would sound > nicer... O:> It probably *would* sound nicer. Latin always does, when you're reading for dramatic purposes. > Wouldn't he then go into interpretation/explanation of the paragraph > he cited, though? So there would then be a long explanation of how one > should avoid the selfish, demonic mindset...? It depends on the church. My fiancee is Catholic, and in that kind of service the reader wouldn't - interpretation and spiritual insight (in the service, anyway) seem to be the province of the priest. I'm LDS (Mormon), and it probably would happen in that kind of service. Of course, if In Nomine was true, Joseph Smith would have writen his own supplement to the game which would be put foreward as another Testament of Croc... Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:02:53 -0500 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Dark Victory? On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:10:44 -0600 Kris Overstreet wrote: >At 12:36 PM 1/17/00 +1100, you wrote: >>Has Dark Victory been abandoned? >I've had other writing tasks to hand, so I haven't had >time to do anything new for DV in a while. that's a shame. hope you get a chance in the near future. good luck with the "other writing tasks," though. >Nice to know there's still interest, though. "interest"? ha! if interest were all it were, i'd never have become as enthusiastic about In Nomine as i am! i swear, Dark Victory inspired me more than any published sourcebook for IN ever did! =) -=|horsefly|=- ________________________________________________________________ For the best in comics, collectibles, original art and shopping, visit the Dark Horse Network @ . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:19:52 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Amad=E1n=27s?= In Nomine page -- moved! I am pleased to announce that my new website seems to be up and running (yes, I went and paid Internic 70 bucks for my own domain name). Check it out at http://www.amadan.org. (Some of the pages are still a little skimpy...the promised rants will be forthcoming, I promise. ;)) But you can find lots of pictures (of me, my wife, Korea, etc.) and more importantly, gaming stuff! Most importantly, my In Nomine page has moved. This means if you have links to my page, you need to update them. I tried to preserve the directory structure, so you should only need to replace the following (old) url: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AmadanSJG with the new one (http://www.amadan.org). Thus, my new In Nomine page is http://www.amadan.org/Innomine.htm. As an incentive to get people to check it out, and let me know if there are any broken links or funny display properties, I have just uploaded a number of Word-bound celestials originally written for the Liber Servitorum, but cut when it was decided to include no Word-bound characters in that book. Some of these are famous angels and demons mentioned in the APG and IPG. You will find (among others): Arael, Angel of Birds Raziel, Angel of Mysteries Nathanael, Angel of Punishment Azazel, Lucifer's personal secretary Iblis, Duke of the War, Baal's chief general Marou, formerly known as Delilah and Salome Tchort, Demon of Atheism "I'm Going to Hell," Lilim Demon of Gambling Debts And of course tons of other stuff. Enjoy! - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:26:16 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Shards > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I thought that, as Archangel of Revelation, Litheroy was dead > set against secrecy of any kind. I'd think that, if he learned > he was a fragment of Lucifer, he blink, gulp, then say something > like, "Oh, well, if I'm an Archangel, it must be okay with God > and who can ask better? At least some good was salvaged out of it," > then trumpet the news from the spires of the Celestial City. And it does fit with L. Prime's original Word, Light, since, in the Light of God, all is revealed and nothing can be kept secret and hidden before the Eyes of God. And wasn't Litheroy born/created as a reliever sometime after L. Prime's Fall? GMG chronology doesn't say, and I can't get at my copy of Feast of Blades, the GM screen adventure where Litheroy is introduced, right now. So.... Tom Timberlake, Sometime Malak of Stone, Usually a Cherub of Protection in service to the Angel of Devotion to One's Friends - -- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:46:10 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Amad=E1n=27s?= In Nomine page -- moved! At 11:19 PM -0800 01/17/00, David Edelstein wrote: >I am pleased to announce that my new website seems to be up and running Looks good! (Gasp! I'm _agreeing_ David!) However, it seems either your backgrounds are missing (like the In Nomine Index page) or are _too_ dark for the text (Like your character write-ups). Suggest going through and double checking each page to make sure they _do_ show up. (I'm using Nyetscrape 4.61, on a Macintosh, if you're curious.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://home.centurytel.net/shdwstar/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:02:14 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] > > But are they *really* demons? A Free Lilim, if I recall correctly, doesn't > have a Heart... > Nor Do Renegades, and they are Demons. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:17:25 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: Where do Bright Lilim go? [Was: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition] >But are they *really* demons? A Free Lilim, if I recall correctly, doesn't >have a Heart... Um neither do the majority of demons in Hell, their stuck in Hell. A Heart has nothing to do with being a celestial it has everything to do with easy access to earth and your home Principality. Lilith could give them Heart's going to the Guild hall, but it would cost them a lot making them much less free. As far as I'm concerned Lilim are demons. Now if Lilith were to have a child the old fashioned way there would be somethind said for the child being a psuedo celestial being much like mommy. I doubt Lilith would actually want to have a child the human way so instead she generates Lilim. I have a theory about Lilith (and I'm going to ramble it at everyone, especially the origional sender of this who didn't want my rite). Lucifer approached Lilith before the Fall (its hinted in the little blurb in FotM not to mention it would have to be the case for them to have established contact for her to be willing to deal with them to help them free her). Now during that little discusion he made things worth her while, he grafted some of his Word Forces into her, making her a super human who had been directly created by God. Now the Fall comes and Lucifer's Word Forces go all hiwire, Lilith isn't a celestial being and can't really notice. The power she had is now infernal, Lucifer sees an opening. Since all that is infernal is his to command he contacts Lilith with the song of projection and explains that all of the demons are trapped in Hell and need tethers to get out. He then explains that since she's human she can do it, but to make it very worth her while he's going to elevate her to a demon princes afterwords. So she makes the tethers and Lucifer comes before her and grants her the Word Freedom based on what she did for Hell and how she walked out. Now he also elevates her to the status of a Superior, and everyone wonders how he did it. It was simply that she had some of his pre-Fall Forces which followed him, putting her into the semi-celstial state and under his direct authority. Her 'resonance' which is passed to her children is a gift from Lucifer. He can inflict/remove Discord as desired, so he gave her control over Geases. Obviously Lucifer can create Lilim on his own, but he likes the idea that Princes think Lilith has a big one up and likes making Heaven think she's an asset to both sides. She's infact the most vulnerable Prince, the second she starts running all of her extra power is stripped. Even then she has a bit of Lucifer in her until he decides to remove it, not a fun proposition. Then again I always like to think that Lucifer has Hell in his clutch with an iron fist tighter than any tryants, but well hidden by all his lies. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:40:35 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> IN on the web Just stopped by David's new domain. It has all his stuff from the old one on it. It didn't give me any trouble in terms of linking or frames or whatever. It looks like it's going to be good... ...except... ...the IN section is all red or brown text on a black background. For some reason, this seems to have been established as the standard for IN web pages. It's not just David; SJG and others do the same thing. But this just finally triggered a reaction. Am I the only one who finds this color combo annoyingly hard to read? Seriously, it detracts quite a bit from enjoyment of the site. Yeah, it looks cool. But I'd FAR rather read plain old black-on-white; it'll keep my eyes going longer, Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:43:33 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: APG, 2nd edition >From: "Kiara S. Legner" >I'm faced with >the continuing issue of "what exactly *is* a Lilim?" Not really a demon, It is really a demon. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1497 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.