From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 24 16:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05308 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:50:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA03184 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:34:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:34:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199804242134.QAA03184@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #728 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 728 In this digest: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) IN> Origins '98 Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. Re: IN> More Lilim discussions.... Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) Re: GRAMMAR (Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy)) IN> IPG sighted in Australia! IN> Re: IN- 100% profit Re: IN> IPG sighted in Australia! IN> Re: IN- Falling, another perspective. Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) Re: IN> Players wanted - Northern New Jersey Re: IN> Origins '98 Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. [none] IN> Defending Michael IN> Where is Bright Victory? IN> Re: Re: IN> Defending Michael Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) Re: IN> Defending Michael Re: IN> Origins '98 Re: IN> Defending Michael Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Re: GRAMMAR (Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:47:46 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) At 15:21 23/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Anyone been in a similar position or could it just be that my players >> find it easier to roleplay twisted, heartless, characters? >> > >I think demon games make fantastic one shots. I think they make terrible >long term campaigns. The backbiting and the players getting irritated at >each other would get tiring after a while. > Funnily enough, I had this exact same experience when playing Vampire. We had a very fun Sabbat one-shot (which would be really really easy to translate into In Nomine) but for a campaign, I dunno. I ran a couple of demon games last year (apologies if I have mentioned these) which were based on 'Yes Minister' and were rather more satirical than blood-and-guts and that could have gone on, I think. On that basis, I'd advise with demons, guiding character creation carefully to make sure they are set up with either allied superiors, or common enemies. Good luck. jo - ---------- Chivalry is the art of lying magnificently. -- Ben Hecht jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:38:23 +0000 From: Jason Griffey Subject: IN> Origins '98 Hey...i was just browsing the pre-reg book for Origins...is _anyone_ going to be running any IN at the con? Feel free to email me if you are...I'd love to sign on... jason, wishing sj would show at origins... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:03:23 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > >However, an angel in this state has the option AT ANY TIME of using the > >Band resonance corresponding to his Choir. If he does so, he has Fallen. > >The rules for Falling are otherwise unchanged. > One of the fundamental features of the current system is that you can be > *forced* to fall by building up too much dissonance; keep putting a > strain on your nature and it will eventually break, no matter how > determined you are to resist temptation. That is something I was deliberately trying to get away from. Previously, Falling was one of the cases where the game rules dictate to you how your character *will* behave. I personally don't like that much, so I amend it to the rules giving you the easy way to go. Angels are supposed to be alien in many ways, but I prefer the player to understand what is going on. > This does raise a related issue -- does falling necessarily, always, and > immediately warp and twist the victim's values, along with its mode of > perceiving and interacting with reality? Canon says yes: the APG explains why. By the time an angel falls, however, they are likely to already be some way towards the personality change. If nothing else, they must have been previously Outcast, and must have chosen not to convert their dissonance to discord. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:56:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. - ---Steve Jessop wrote: > > > Some ideas provoked by the axiom that 'Falling is a moral choice - you > have to choose to Fall'. These rules are technically in use in my game, > but haven't been needed yet, so I'd appreciate comments and ideas. > > Capture an Ofanite. Tie him up. Watch him get dissonant. Eventually, he > becomes aware that he can be free: all he has to do is DESTROY. He can > BLAST those chains. He can KILL his captors. He has the power to get away, > to be able to move again. Heh. > You tell them 'Hmm. The Symphony doesn't seem to want to speak to you any > more, but you reckon if you just shout a bit louder, you can make youself > heard, and get some results.' > > Anyone? > > Steve. > > The moral of this story? Be careful how you pick yerself up from tripping, or you just may lose your balance, and Fall down...WAY down! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim discussions.... On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >---Walter Milliken wrote: > >> >IMO whatever Lilith was at the time of Eden, it changed irrevocably when > >> >she made a deal with the devil. That deal included the fact that all her > >> >daughters would be demons. I refer you to Larkin's 'This be the verse' > >;-) > >> > >> Ah, but is that part of IN canon...? > > > >Nope, not that I know of. That's why I said 'in my opinion'! I leave it to > >the canon experts to comment *bow* > > That would be Elizabeth, in this case. She owns Lilim and Lilith, more > or less. But there are some Areas of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty > surrounding Lilith. [snip] > Where Lilim fit in the "humanness" scale in IN canon isn't precisely > clear -- they're loosely paired with the Malakim, but I'm not sure that > really means anything. Given their origin from a *human* Demon > Princess, they don't really fit the main celestial taxonomy; they're > much like the Children of the Grigori in that they're a *sort* of > celestial/human crossbreed, except that it's definitely IN canon that > this isn't really possible -- the result is either really human, or > really celestial. While there's a spectrum of humans, and a spectrum of > angels, the two don't really overlap, though they apparently come very > close at some points. i'd like to preface this comment with the facts that i've been lurking on the list for a few weeks, but i have yet to get either the book or the supplements (i really mean to, honest). however, i think this is far enough from canon but related enough that i won't fall into something stinky or messy. ahem... Lilith, being the first woman and not having partook of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, may have been closer celestially than Adam or Eve after the Fall of Humans; her daughters (spawn of any matings Lilith had) would be strictly demonic in nature. not sure here, but if they were strictly demonic, it might explain how they survived the Flood. i'll go back to lurking now, folks. :) -=|horsefly|=- "Damn it, Senator! You promised me these men would be decently treated." "The were decently treated: they were decently fed... and then they were decently shot." --Fletcher and the Senator, THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:19:06 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) >How many demonic campaigns *are* running out there? I'm interested >because I'm about to start one up, and I'm finding that its generating a >lot of interest. More so in fact, than my angelic one does. > >Anyone been in a similar position or could it just be that my players >find it easier to roleplay twisted, heartless, characters? > >;) > > >-- >Julian - No FT? No comment.(Sorry, just a BritQuip) I find that my demon players don't get into it as much as the angelic players. It could be that my demons are so vile as to make anything that the players do seem good. I think that it is one of those things that is easier said than done. Someone stated earlier that it was easier to try and sympathize with doing good than intrinsic evil. I think that evil doesn't resonate with your average player's ability to play the character. Sure, it sounds like fun, but how often do they manage to pull it off? Or, even worse, bad servitors of Kobal. I have a player who thinks that he is teh greatest humor monger since Jim Carey (now you know where he's coming from). I've had to stop the group from killing him on several occasions. (Annoying characters always reincarnate into something even more annoying) So, trying miserably to be on topic and not ranting, most of my demonic campaigns aren't as fun as they sound like they're going to be. I do wish you luck on yours though, maybe your players have something that mine don't. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:51:26 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) >>>More full stops, more paragraphs, blah, blah. What's important is the content! yeesh, anyone would think this list was populated with ex-english teahcers!<<< Or current English teachers. ;) (And yes, I do have a -2 reaction penalty to people who can't or won't write coherent sentences in their native language. Content is all well and good, but form IS part of the content!) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) > Or current English teachers. ;) I are a scientist. I dont hafta speek good > > (And yes, I do have a -2 reaction penalty to people who can't or won't > write coherent sentences in their native language. Content is all well and > good, but form IS part of the content!) Or, more significantly, bad form obscures content. If I see 50 lines of uninterurupted ASCII text, with no blank lines, my eyes swim. It's hard to read. The content has to be pretty darn good to overcome that. I have noticed, however, a correlation between good content and good form. Or, rather, between bad content and bad form; usually those with bad form also don't have great content. I've used this as one selection critereon for players in my PBEMs. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:19:30 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) A > >Where did you get the idea the the outcome of the war is "fated"? I don't >have all the source books yet, and am interested in reading it myself. > > >In Revelations: Heaven and Hell, in three places it basically says that the War is fated. The first is in the description of Heaven in which it says it had no boundaries and when the Final Judgment is passed it will have no boundaries again. Thesecond is the descrption of the Eternal City where it dexribes its walls as a symbolic ward against the Hordes of Hell, and that once lucifer is defeated they will disappear, that one annoyed me the most, when Lucifer is defeated? how about if? The last isn't quite the same as the others but.. When it describes the Angels of Final Judgment and how they can't be moved it says that this is a reminder of Heaven's soveriegnty over Hell. This adds to the whole Hell is under foot idea, which some people do like, the whole 'Where going down so lets at least take as much of the Symphony down with us' mentality, but IMO I like the angels to pause and doubt and wonder, what if Lucifer did win? Simon > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:22:17 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: GRAMMAR (Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy)) A >Hey, my mother was an English teacher! (And I got a degree in English...) >Watch out what you say about 'em -- the good ones have a Special Place >in the Library! > >( >So is my aunty, hence my annoyance with them in general, there are a few good ones out there who really make the language fun, but more often then no, well, they are rather obsessed individuals. Simon > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:38:24 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> IPG sighted in Australia! Last night I picked up the Infernal Players' Guide at Games Paradise, cnr of Pitt and Bathurst, Sydney, Australia (Ph) 9267 2069. It's even on special - $AUS28.75 While I have all IN aussies attention, if anyone wants a cheap Liber Reliquaram, email me directly , or page me with your name and phone number. I've ended up with two copies - the one I'm selling is in mint condition - I haven't opened it. David "SurturZ" Streeter (I don't work for Games Paradise, BTW) - ----------------------------------------------- David Streeter Synchrotech Software Pager: Dial 016020 and quote 247689 to operator ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:48:27 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- 100% profit The >other replied, "Yes, but we caused $20,000 worth of trade!" I don't know >who laughed harder, Marc or Kobal. <--M. Kobal would have laughed after they had to pay Goods and Services tax on the two transactions :-) SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:20:59 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> IPG sighted in Australia! A >I would like it, how much are you selling it for? Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:14:03 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Falling, another perspective. >This does raise a related issue -- does falling necessarily, always, and >immediately warp and twist the victim's values, along with its mode of >perceiving and interacting with reality? Possible examples abound -- >envision an overloaded Cherub (say Laurence has ordered him to guard >multiple subjects), who muffs a bodyguarding assignment and Falls on >his third point of dissonance through bad rolling. He's now a Djinn. >Does the damage and pain of the transformation *automatically* instil >the gloomy Djinn mindset? Or would he still see himself as an ally of >former comrades and enemy of Hell? I would say the celestial change is immediate and dramatic, rather than gradual. Celestials are creatures of extremes. However, nothing stops a player roleplaying a gradual change to a more "demonic" mindset as the dissonance accumulates. IMHO Tariel is a good example of how an angel falls. In the main rulebook, he is so obsessive about protecting his charge that he ties her up and gags her so she can't wander into harm. The Djinn obsessiveness is already starting to show. When we see him next in the IPG, he's fallen - self pitying and unable to care about others. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:16:30 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) York H. Dobyns wrote: > and the Armies of God under the command of a headstrong bozo who has > repeatedly demonstrated his own incompetence. (That last, mind > you, is *canon*: Michael is described as "tired of having to pull > Laurence's fat out of the fire every couple of centuries." Laurence has > had millennia to grow out of being Young Luke Skywalker, but it just > doesn't seem to be sinking in. Maybe celestial immortality entails a > really slow learning curve?) I think that incompetent is a bit strong and I would disagree that angels (and therefor demons) have a slow learning curve. I would guess that a great deal of the seeming slowness of Laurence to grow from being the young Luke would be the enormity of what he is doing. Think about it... Your mission, should you choose to accept, is to defend all of infinite Creation from the onslaught of a numerically superior foe that can turn up anywhere. Oh, yeah, and just to make it more fun half the time you won't even know who or where the enemy is. I think Laurence may be just a bit too idealistic but this is Heaven. He makes mistakes and Michael feels obligated to fix it. Maybe it is Michael that has the problem, maybe he just needs to relax. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:44:40 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Andrew Frades wrote: > > *canon*: Michael is described as "tired of having to pull > > Laurence's fat out of the fire every couple of centuries." > I think that incompetent is a bit strong ... Your mission, should you > choose to accept, is to defend all of infinite Creation Entirely agreed. Laurence is co-ordinating the actions of thousands of individuals, not all of whom fully accept his authority. He needs help from Michael about once every 200 years. That doesn't necessarily mean that he has made a mistake, just that he is in a situation that he can't solve alone. (Belial goes on a rampage, f'rinstance). Bearing in mind that Michael is, with the possible exception of Lucifer, the single hardest being below the Upper Heavens, the astounding thing is that Laurence doesn't lean on him a lot more. So, a BIG thumbs up to Laurence's competence, if not his personal skills. IMO the reason Michael is 'tired of it' is more to do with the way Laurence reacts to being helped than fact of helping. 'Yes, Michael. Very good. My thanks.' [leaves] Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:06:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) > I think Laurence may be just a bit too idealistic but this is Heaven. He > makes mistakes and Michael feels obligated to fix it. Maybe it is Michael > that has the problem, maybe he just needs to relax. > And now I'm going to take this commercial break to mention just how much I love the Archangel Laurence because he's so young and idealistic. And... and... and so very Malakim! Imagine, you are surrounded by people like grizzled Michael who doesn't want to deal with anyone anymore, Yves who never gives a straight answer, Eli who has taken off and shows no sign of coming back, Gabriel who is insane, and David who suspects that he would be better off leading God's Army then you are. You still carry the guilt of your own Archangel getting hauled up to Heaven. Your peers have never even been Servitors, let alone lived through that. You turn to Dominic, because he seems to be the guy who at least has most of this mess all figured out, but that doesn't help your reputation, because Dommie has his own agenda. On top of it, you're fighting an enemy who outnumbers you greatly and plays dirty. Honorbound, oathbound, and bound to religion, you do the best you can. Your peers are literally millenia old and have been doing this Archangelly thing since the creation of the Earth. Most of them existed as Archangels before Uriel formed you out of Forces. You've been doing this job for 1500 years. And that's it. I think it's fair to keep Laurence making mistakes. He's learning, but it's sort of overwhelming. Laurence is the best of the best, the most good of those who are good in Heaven. He's the ultimate shining example of Heaven's Honor. It's just... sometimes... you have to get a little dirty to win the fight. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:10:34 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) - ---Steve Jessop wrote: > > IMO the reason Michael is 'tired of it' is more to do with the way > Laurence reacts to being helped than fact of helping. > > 'Yes, Michael. Very good. My thanks.' [leaves] Indeed. Laurence (IMC) personally thinks nothing of meeting an honourable request for aid, or going to someone's assistance in the cause of heaven with no need of thanks at all. It is his honourable duty and the deed itself is its own reward. So he probably fails to see that any other honourable being could act or feel differently. I wonder if Michael is just tired full-stop. Things were easier when you could just go off on your own and trash things quietly without all the fuss of having to call for assistance or organise scads of other superior's angels. In his view, when a fellow warrior comes to your aid and you stand back-to-back as brothers in arms (etc etc etc) the very least you can do is sing his praises around the fire afterwards. jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:32:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) I wonder if part of the friction between Michael and Laurence isn't contrasts between their personalities/Words. Michael, I think, is the lone champion, and not far removed from the berserker. His martial virtues are courage and zeal. He's a celestial guerilla fighter. Laurence is factory-guaranteed to be courageous, but his specific martial virtues are discipline (notably lacking in Michael) and loyalty. He's the organization type. So naturally, he sees Michael as a loose cannon, and Michael sees him as a spinner of red tape. Mike's hot, Larry's cold. Mike's a warrior, Larry's a soldier. Mike's sanguine; Larry's melancholic. Mike's SP; Larry's SJ, in "type talk." etc. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:50:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) - ---Simon Hailes wrote: > > A > > >Where did you get the idea the the outcome of the war is "fated"? I don't > >have all the source books yet, and am interested in reading it myself. > > > > >In Revelations: Heaven and Hell, in three places it basically says that > the War is fated. The first is in the description of Heaven in which it > says it had no boundaries and when the Final Judgment is passed it will > have no boundaries again. Thesecond is the descrption of the Eternal City > where it dexribes its walls as a symbolic ward against the Hordes of Hell, > and that once lucifer is defeated they will disappear, that one annoyed me > the most, when Lucifer is defeated? how about if? The last isn't quite the > same as the others but.. > When it describes the Angels of Final Judgment and how they can't be > moved it says that this is a reminder of Heaven's soveriegnty over Hell. > This adds to the whole Hell is under foot idea, which some people do like, > the whole 'Where going down so lets at least take as much of the Symphony > down with us' mentality, but IMO I like the angels to pause and doubt and > wonder, what if Lucifer did win? > Simon > > > > > > > > If Lucifer won, then it would truly be a 'Dark Victory'! Graveyard Greg (servitor of Shameless Plugs) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Players wanted - Northern New Jersey - ---Bruce Dykes wrote: > > Okay, since today seems to be player request day, looking for players > in Bergen County, Northern New Jersey region... > > email me... > > > Well, might as well continue the trend then! Anyone in the Monroe County, Michigan area? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Origins '98 - ---Jason Griffey wrote: > > > > > Hey...i was just browsing the pre-reg book for Origins...is _anyone_ going to be running > any IN at the con? > Feel free to email me if you are...I'd love to sign on... > > jason, wishing sj would show at origins... > > > > I wish they would show up at Origins too! :( That's one of the main reasons I would go... BUT, since I'm going anyway, maybe next year I can run a game...Hmmm Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Falling, another perspective. - ---"York H. Dobyns" wrote: > I'm intrigued by the concept excerpted above; it certainly does away > with "falling through bad die rolls," big-time. It makes it *very* clear > that falling is a choice. It does have the drawback that Kyriotates, as > Jessop remarked, have the alternative of Falling or suicide. > This does raise a related issue -- does falling necessarily, always, and > immediately warp and twist the victim's values, along with its mode of > perceiving and interacting with reality? Possible examples abound -- > envision an overloaded Cherub (say Laurence has ordered him to guard > multiple subjects), who muffs a bodyguarding assignment and Falls on > his third point of dissonance through bad rolling. He's now a Djinn. > Does the damage and pain of the transformation *automatically* instil > the gloomy Djinn mindset? Or would he still see himself as an ally of > former comrades and enemy of Hell? > > Have you read the story in the Infernal's Player Guide? When the cherub (I belive his name was Tariel) Fell, he was devestated, like it was irreversable that he would have the Djinn mindset...Apparently, the Djinn Mindset gradually takes effect. Comments, anyone? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:18:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: [none] Anyone here wonder what Kobal's BIG GAG will be? I think it's going to be Redeeming himself...One heck of a punchline, yes? Too bad he'll get eaten by his 'brother', Haagentii Graveyard Greg - --who fears the Magic 8-Ball _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:28:33 -0800 From: Armand Subject: IN> Defending Michael This guy's word is War. This means all war. Honourable combat and nasty trench fighting are equally his domain. Declare war on a foe, and have entered his domain. Follow the "principles of the wars," and be under him. Wait until your foe passes you in the night, and stab him in the back. All of these are aspects of war. He has no choice but to know them all. Imagine how your outlook on life would look if you could justify sending a five year old into an enemy encampment with a grenade. What kind of mind does it take to send a mother driving a truck full of dinamite into building belonging to the enemy? I'll tell you, this is person honed to win. His victories may not be pretty. Many of his battles have high death tolls, but he has a job to do. Laurence may be innadequately trying to follow Michael's lead, but there are times that honourable combat needs to bew set aside. Michael is old enough to know this. Laurence is still the little kid sitting at the adult table, and doesn't want to be sent back with his sibs. Look at it this way, Michael sees a chance at victory; but needs to disrupt the Symphony. If the battle will lead him closer to victory over the Adversary, then the Symohony be damned. Laurence is still afraid of Dominic, and wouldn't want to upset him. Then, just consider the fact that it's been millenia, and Michael hasn't beaten the forces of Hell yet. That can't weigh too easily on the ego. I think that he might be over compensating a bit, but I think that he sees the endgame. Of course, this means that no one else will know it until checkmate is declared. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:23:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Where is Bright Victory? Can anyone direct me to the story seed of "A Bright Victory"? I think it became a broken link on the INC, but I dunno.... Graveyard Greg - --demands a sequel to "Dark Victory"! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:27:30 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Re: Graveyard Greg wrote: > Anyone here wonder what Kobal's BIG GAG will be? I think it's going > to be Redeeming himself...One heck of a punchline, yes? > > Too bad he'll get eaten by his 'brother', Haagentii A, but first there's the warm-up gag wherein he feeds Haagenti to himself and so disposes of him. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:52:25 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Defending Michael I wonder if you could classify the archangels into 2 camps ;-) Those who believe that it is worth risking the entire world to save one soul: (Laurence, Dominic, Yves, Gabriel, Blandine, Novalis) Those who believe that it is worth damning one soul if by doing so you might save the world: (Michael, David, Janus, Jean, Jordi, Eli, Marc) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:11:38 -0400 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy) > It's like being Chaotic Neutral in AD&D...screw the others, sky's the > limit, do whatever the hell you want, and eventually get killed > because of it. SPells F-U-N, fun. :) Or being a Follower of Set in Vampire. A Templar/Defiler in Dark Sun. I think its just 'natural' for people to want to play the 'bad guys' every now and again. In Nomine just makes it easier, due to the fact that they give you 'permission' to play the demons-- the 'bad guys' in this case. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \|/// Zzzzzzzzzzzz Brandon Lance Quina (- -) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 12:56 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Defending Michael >Those who believe that it is worth risking the entire world to save one >soul: (Laurence, Dominic, Yves, Gabriel, Blandine, Novalis) > >Those who believe that it is worth damning one soul if by doing so you might >save the world: (Michael, David, Janus, Jean, Jordi, Eli, Marc) I think there's probably a third camp in this classification: those would would *ask* one soul to sacrifice itself to Hell to save the world. I would put Eli, probably Marc, possibly Jordi, and maybe David in this camp. I also don't think Dominic fits into the first group -- I can see him sacrificing people for his own goals. Gabriel, I suspect, moves between the groups, depending on her current state of mind. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 12:49 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Origins '98 >> jason, wishing sj would show at origins... I suspect the story with Origins is similar to the one with GenCon -- Andon (WotC) runs both. See http://www.sjgames.com/ill/ill-feb98.html and look down near the bottom for the Feb 4th entry. The short answer seems to be that the big gaming conventions don't really help promote sales enough for the amount they cost now. But note that SJGames (and SJ himself) is going to a number of *SF* conventions. >I wish they would show up at Origins too! :( That's one of the main >reasons I would go... I *was* going to be at GenCon this year, running several IN games, but I canceled out; Elizabeth and I are going to WorldCon instead. With any luck, there'll be some IN games running there. I'll probably do a couple, if I can set it up. And WorldCon will probably be more generally interesting than GenCon, too. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:15:08 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Defending Michael >I wonder if you could classify the archangels into 2 camps ;-) > >Those who believe that it is worth risking the entire world to save one >soul: (Laurence, Dominic, Yves, Gabriel, Blandine, Novalis) > >Those who believe that it is worth damning one soul if by doing so you might >save the world: (Michael, David, Janus, Jean, Jordi, Eli, Marc) I think that you'd have to shoot for three camps. Those who think that the price is too high either way: (Yves, Novalis, David) Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:02:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Steve Jessop wrote: > Entirely agreed. Laurence is co-ordinating the actions of thousands of > individuals, not all of whom fully accept his authority. He needs help > from Michael about once every 200 years. That doesn't necessarily mean > that he has made a mistake, just that he is in a situation that he can't > solve alone. (Belial goes on a rampage, f'rinstance). Even so, I would like to point out that one mistake in 200 years is damn good. Any human with that track record would be nominated for sainthood. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:55:51 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: Re: Michael take a Qualude (was Re: IN> Fuzzy?) Hart, Joanna wrote: > I wonder if Michael is just tired full-stop. Things were easier when you > could just go off on your own and trash things quietly without all the fuss > of having to call for assistance or organise scads of other superior's > angels. In his view, when a fellow warrior comes to your aid and you stand > back-to-back as brothers in arms (etc etc etc) the very least you can do is > sing his praises around the fire afterwards. > > jo Actually, I wonder if the differences between Laurence and Michael have to do with different "religious" viewpoints. Laurence is Catholic to the teeth, right along with Dominic, and neither of them are going to appreciate Michael's "Pride and glory" outlook. (In fact, that's what Michael was tried for by Dominic.) I don't think Laurence understands the warrior's need for war stories around the campfire where you tell of not only your own victories, but of the victories of those you've fought with. The "soldier vs warrior" comparison in someone else's letter was a good one. I look at Laurence and Michael kind of like I looked at the two commanders in the movie Heartbreak Ridge. Gunney Highway would be Michael...the grizzled, war-battered old salt who knows what the heck he's doing and doesn't necessarily play always by regulation. Laurence would be his CO...anal-retentive (it does too have a hyphen!), young, and wanting things done by the book. - - Gryph Angel of Morning Sickness, Knight of Nausea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:20:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: GRAMMAR (Re: IN> Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy)) At 1:22 AM +0900 4/24/98, Simon Hailes wrote: >A >Hey, my mother was an English teacher! (And I got a degree in English...) >>Watch out what you say about 'em -- the good ones have a Special Place >>in the Library! >> >( >So is my aunty, hence my annoyance with them in general, there are a >few good ones out there who really make the language fun, but more often >then no, well, they are rather obsessed individuals. Huh. You must've had bad ones. On the other hand... Mmmm, obsessed! - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #728 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.